MEREDITH
[ 00:00:08 ] Welcome back Portugal Junkies, Hello! We're so glad to have you back.
Mark Burns
[ 00:00:18 ] Hey, it's good. It's a good day. It's nice and cool. It's 63 degrees today.
MEREDITH
[ 00:00:23 ] Kind of walked out this morning and thought, 'Oh, I might get away with wearing jeans.'
Mark Burns
[ 00:00:27 ] No way.
MEREDITH
[ 00:00:28 ] It was seriously like fall this morning when we went outside, so that was really nice. That was lovely. Not that it's I mean, it's been pretty warm here, but not super, super hot. It was nice to have a little bit of cool, crispness in the air today.
Mark Burns
[ 00:00:43 ] Yeah, it almost made you feel like you could go out for a cinnamon-flavored iced coffee, something. You know Starbucks has already put their fall drinks out.
MEREDITH
[ 00:00:52 ] I saw it I think it was today I saw it maybe either today or yesterday. They had an apple chai something. Yes there are Starbucks here by the way and some days I am very American and I go to the Starbucks. But I also scoff at how much they charge for things. Yeah. Because you can get a really great cup of coffee for under a euro. Yeah and then you go to Starbucks and it's still like four euros. Give me the keys to your house. So anyway when I'm missing home and I want to do something very American I go to Starbucks. You know why? I go to Starbucks because they have travel cups. So one thing you need to know about Europe for those of you who haven't experienced it much. The coffee here is amazing. It's hands down. A cafe is an espresso, though right? And you can order other types like I had a cappuccino this morning, that kind of thing. But the likelihood that you can go into a cafe and actually get like a to-go cup of anything is very small.
Mark Burns
[ 00:01:59 ] I used to think you might get a cup, but you will almost certainly not get a lid.
MEREDITH
[ 00:02:03 ] Oh yeah, I actually paid 50 for a cup the other day because we went to a coffee shop. I'll tell you this story in a second because we didn't have internet at our house for four days. But we were forced to kind of go to a coffee shop and work, and we were trying to like be respectful so we would go to one coffee shop for a couple hours and then go to the next coffee shop. And so the second one we went to is called Simply Coffee, and like the ambiance in there is really cool, but no plugs. Literally no plugs, but we didn't know that. Like no plugs around the entire I don't even know how they operate. There were no plugs near any seat in Simply Coffee.
Mark Burns
[ 00:02:43 ] And I think that's on purpose.
MEREDITH
[ 00:02:44 ] But we didn't discover this until after we ordered our iced lattes, which is also very rare to find really good iced coffee. And so I was sitting there with this huge coffee, knowing that my computer was on its last like little bar, knowing that I was going to have to take that coffee to go. So I ended up paying 50 cents for it. This is how it is. But I go back to when I just want that traditional like... Like my sister Jackie when she came here. She was like, 'I think I'd have a problem living here.' And I was like, 'What are you talking about?' She's like, 'It's a coffee situation.'
Mark Burns
[ 00:03:24 ] I need a 32-ounce coffee to get going. She needs volume instead of like packing a punch.
MEREDITH
[ 00:03:30 ] And it's hard to find coffees here that are that big, that size.
Mark Burns
[ 00:03:36 ] Here's a top tip. If you're coming over, top tip. Yeah. If you are coming over, bring a travel cup if that's what you have. So that when you buy your coffee, you can just pour it into that and then you can walk around. But there aren't I will say this: there aren't many people that I've seen over these last months that carry coffee around when they're walking up and down the street.
MEREDITH
[ 00:03:57 ] Because it doesn't exist.
Mark Burns
[ 00:03:58 ] Well, number one because it doesn't exist. And number two, I think you just would wear it more than you would drink it.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:02 ] Because you would get pummeled by people. It's a lot of people on the street. So, you have to do a lot of dodging and weaving and all that.
Mark Burns
[ 00:04:10 ] It's it's yeah, I take it back. Don't bring a travel cup. No. Blend in. And here's the thing.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:15 ] It's the difference right. As Americans we're always like on the go. Like take your coffee as you're doing something else. Or grab your coffee as you're running your errands. It's always like multitasking. Here it's sit down and have a drink. Do one thing. And then do another thing. Separately. It's just cultural. But I do sometimes. Yeah. I have to have my traditional, you know, Starbucks something. Anyway the fall menu is out. But I don't know if it's here.
Mark Burns
[ 00:04:45 ] Right.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:46 ] So I have to check that. Because I saw apple chai something.
Mark Burns
[ 00:04:50 ] But you know what.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:51 ] And I was like oh my god.
Mark Burns
[ 00:04:52 ] Yeah. I want that. It's too early though. Well, not what I was going to say. But you know the point of today's one is that there isn't one in this new place that we're going to.
MEREDITH
[ 00:05:04 ] That's true. But let me. Before. So today we're going to talk about why we're leaving Porto. And I know that we have talked about it high level before. And why we're moving to Tavira specifically. So we wanted to share a little bit more about this whole transition story and kind of like next step of our exciting journey. But I did tell a story about the Starbucks. But let's talk about the other drama that happened this week. Not that Starbucks was a drama. But the drama of our internet. What day was it? Friday or Saturday?
Mark Burns
[ 00:05:41 ] I want to say it was Friday.
MEREDITH
[ 00:05:44 ] We were sitting here in the house. We were actually watching TV. And connection stopped. We realized that the internet was no longer connected. We waited a few minutes because we thought, well, maybe it's just...
SPEAKER_2
[ 00:06:03 ] just like a glitch. Whatever.
MEREDITH
[ 00:06:05 ] An hour later, still no internet. Mark gets on to the company that we're with, NOS. And they're like, yeah, it's something not with your modem. It's something literally, you know, on the outside of your building. And that's going to require someone to come out, which I'll find four days from now. Now this is what happens in a place like Portugal. And we always talk about, like.
Mark Burns
[ 00:06:35 ] Portuguese patients.
MEREDITH
[ 00:06:36 ] Portuguese patients and things move more slowly. But this kind of stuff. Y'all come on. Like people who work from home. Or people who depend on internet service at home in order to literally create income for themselves. Four days. It was four days. It was a bit much. Four days of no internet in this house. And I know I sound like first-world problems right now. And I'm trying to, but. I mean it was just like. It disrupted our entire lives. And then I thought. Oh my god, how embarrassing is it that it disrupts my whole life. Right. But it does. So, that is a good example of like things that happen here that you have absolutely no control over. And you wonder as an immigrant from the U. S. and England. But the U. S., especially. There's competition with like services and companies. And like for instance.
Mark Burns
[ 00:07:37 ] If you don't fix it I'll move somewhere else. I will fix it then.
MEREDITH
[ 00:07:40 ] Right. Like a Verizon versus a T-Mobile, or a Spectrum versus Verizon, or whatever. And they have that customer service thing that has been created because they want to be good competitors or be better than the next company. Well, here, that doesn't exist. It doesn't really exist.
Mark Burns
[ 00:08:01 ] If it does, it's silent. It's really silent.
MEREDITH
[ 00:08:04 ] It doesn't feel like it exists. Especially not to the extent that it does in America. And a lot of that is capitalism.
Mark Burns
[ 00:08:11 ] But ultimately when they came. He came and. He was great. He's been once before. Because we've had internet outage. This is now the fifth time. We've been through three new modems. Did you say modems? You said modem.
MEREDITH
[ 00:08:30 ] Yeah modem. Y'all. Modem. This is a good example of our relationship right here. Modem. Modem. Anyway. Yes we have had internet troubles. We've had so much internet trouble.
Mark Burns
[ 00:08:47 ] Anyway he fixed it within a few minutes. And he was lovely.
MEREDITH
[ 00:08:49 ] But it was just like, could you have done this on Saturday. Or even Sunday.
Mark Burns
[ 00:08:54 ] If we weren't moving I would be half-tempted to ask him for his phone number. Just so we could have him on speed dial. Yeah. But anyway.
MEREDITH
[ 00:09:01 ] Anyway, that's the drama. So now we've covered Starbucks and we've covered...
Mark Burns
[ 00:09:05 ] Yeah, you've got an extra story in this morning. Internet and Starbucks. Probably find Starbucks is more interesting. Especially to you.
MEREDITH
[ 00:09:13 ] Okay, so let's talk about. Let's tell the people. What is it that we are. So we are. What is today? August... I don't know. And we have a little bit left in August. And we have all of September. But October 1st. We are leaving. Porto. So I'm going to ask you. We'll do it this way. Why are we leaving Porto?
Mark Burns
[ 00:09:40 ] Um.
MEREDITH
[ 00:09:41 ] Because I will say before I let you finish.
Mark Burns
[ 00:09:45 ] Really?
MEREDITH
[ 00:09:45 ] These people who listen to us. Know how much we love Porto. So a lot of them are probably like. What the hell? Are you all like. Lying about how amazing Porto is? Because you are leaving it. So why are we leaving it?
Mark Burns
[ 00:10:00 ] For us, we are leaving it. Mostly. If not completely. Because of the weather. Around the winter time. So if anybody has watched Game of Thrones. And you have the war. And the winter is coming. Substitute the cold. With the ice and the snow. With just rain. And more rain. And a lot more rain. And we had it for three months. Between December and February. I think we got about five maybe seven days off. Of all of that period of time. And that is no joke. It's no lie either. It's legitimate. Awful. It was the worst one on record. It was the worst winter. According to locals, for sure. And we are not prepared. To go through that again. When we can. Be our own guide for where we want to be. We don't have to put up with it. We are lucky in that sense. We don't have to put up with it. We don't have kids in school that we have to keep. That sort of thing. We are very much a nomadic option. If we can do that too. Better our sanity. Then, hell why not.
MEREDITH
[ 00:11:21 ] Why not, it's funny to hear him say; that's the first thing. We both agree on this. The rain for my guys. I literally talked about it before, on the podcast. I really talked about it more, along the lines of how it affected me. Emotionally. Kind of like seasonal affect disorder type of thing, where it's like: we were just kind of held hostage to the rain. It was right when we moved here. You're in a big city. By the time January came along, we had the dog with us; taking her out in the rain every day, two or three times a day. It was just... it was tough. That was on top of an emotional transition, leaving home. Coming to a new country, where you don't know anything-all of that stuff. It was pretty; it was pretty hard. I told him after that winter. I think we need to really consider: if we want to go through this again.
Mark Burns
[ 00:12:31 ] It's been rebranded; the winter of discontent.
MEREDITH
[ 00:12:34 ] It was a lot of drama.
Mark Burns
[ 00:12:38 ] Even as an English person, it was a lot of rain-that's a big deal for me.
MEREDITH
[ 00:12:43 ] Why else were you leaving Porto?
Mark Burns
[ 00:12:46 ] When you don't have to be somewhere? You've enjoyed what you've had. Why not explore more? That was another thing. We wanted this to be an adventure; a wider adventure than just one pocket of place. We chose here, after we looked at. Several different places to live. We always knew this was never going to be the final long-term. That's it.
MEREDITH
[ 00:13:12 ] I would say we weren't sure. I don't think.
Mark Burns
[ 00:13:17 ] You would have lived in a city for like a period. I agree. I don't know that I would. I love open spaces. I think that's another thing. If you're in Porto, unless you move to some of the outer side neighbourhoods. You are going to be not hemmed in, but overlooked by taller buildings, older buildings, and they're beautiful. Some are falling apart. I think. Just the crowds as well. We make a joke, a joke, under your breath, 'Bloody tourists.' Will you move? Keep walking.
MEREDITH
[ 00:14:04 ] By the way. We're still tourists.
Mark Burns
[ 00:14:08 ] I get it. We would have done the same thing. When we first came here. Look at this. Let's take a photo. 20 people have got to walk around us. While we look at a map. Turning it 400 different ways. To try and work out where you are.
MEREDITH
[ 00:14:23 ] I think when it comes back to it. There's just a lot of people here. You're in a big city. It's the second biggest city in Portugal. For me, in addition to the rain. I think it's really hard for me to think about. Living in a city permanently. I say that. Having lived in Charlotte since 2005. However, I wasn't living in; a city properly. Charlotte is kind of sprawling, very neighborhood. Type of city. You're not like uptown. It's not like New York City. For me. It's just really rooted in. Maybe a slower pace. This place is full of. Vibrance. You could go out every day and find something new to do, 100%. Those are all great things. But. It's still city. It's still very crowded. It's still. Kind of dirty sometimes. Got to be honest. You're still in city. I don't mean that to be disparaging at all. It's just any kind of bigger city. You're going to have more challenges keeping it pristine and beautiful in all places. It's not like that. Now there are some places. That are absolutely gorgeous. And then there are some places that are not. And so I think that's part of it. So definitely weather. Definitely crowds. Definitely city life. It's almost like we've checked the box. On city life.
Mark Burns
[ 00:16:05 ] Yeah, I think so. And that's not to say we wouldn't come back to city life.
MEREDITH
[ 00:16:09 ] Yeah. We kind of want to look at this adventure. Like, where are we going next?
Mark Burns
[ 00:16:16 ] That was the whole point. Of doing it the way that we've done it. And being fortunate that our situation. Affords us the opportunity to do it that way. Right. And that's not everybody's. It's not everybody's choice or desire or whatever. But it is ours.
MEREDITH
[ 00:16:32 ] But I am glad that we've experienced it. 100%. It will always have a special place for me. In my heart. Just because we really learned about Portugal culture here. And we really met some of the most wonderful people. Here. And so for all of that, it's made me really appreciative of our choice to begin the journey here. And then now we get to move on to the next thing.
Mark Burns
[ 00:16:58 ] So we've decided to move to Tavira. Yeah. To have another adventure. Yeah. See how long that one lasts for. It might be six months. It might be a year. It might be much longer. Who knows? All the other things that we could do.
MEREDITH
[ 00:17:20 ] I think when you look at Portugal, and when most people look at Portugal. Especially from a lens, like where would I feel like I could live? I believe that Northern Portugal. Is the opposite of the Algarve, which is Southern Portugal. And to me it's like, we've had this city life. We've experienced this tough winter weather. Right. And that type. I'm not saying it doesn't get wet in the winter there. But I think that the weather patterns are very different there. And in fact, I know that they are. Yes, they are. And so it's hotter. It's warmer. It's beach life. It's honestly. The Algarve is kind of like where people know in Portugal. Yeah. You know whether that's true and accurate. Or if it's very true in immigrant lands. Or, a kind of. Expat type community, which is a lot of who lives in the Algarve. It really is. That's the truth. But it is known. Like people know the Algarve. It is the most popular spots. Probably in all of Portugal. I'm not saying that they're right. I'm saying that it's probably. The most well-known for retirees and vacationers, and all of that stuff. And I'm interested. I want to know what all the fuss is about. And I want to experience it. And I feel like it's almost the exact opposite of what we've experienced so far in Porto. So it makes sense to me. That maybe we would do the opposite.
Mark Burns
[ 00:19:00 ] It is quite funny though, just to pull on that. The other day when I went, I went to get my hair cut. And get a beard trim. And my barber, Ricardo. Really lovely guy. And I said to him, This was my second-to-last haircut with him. And he said, Oh no, why? What's going on? It's like we're moving to the Algarve. The Algarve is really beautiful. It's very hot. It's great weather. Fantastic food. But whereabouts in the Algarve? And I said, Jesus. It's probably accurate. I mean you've got Tavira. There's definitely an English community. You've got Concelo and Cabanas. Tavira. And those two specific areas are. Heavily populated with. An expat immigrant group. I'm not going to say. Dominated by English. But there's a very healthy. Amount of English people there.
MEREDITH
[ 00:20:06 ] I will also say. I mean, to the point where. There's a lot of English breakfast on there. Like a true English breakfast. In Portugal.
Mark Burns
[ 00:20:15 ] You're saying it like it's a bad thing.
MEREDITH
[ 00:20:17 ] No, I'm just. They are definitely catering to that community. And I don't know how I feel about it. There's part of me that is. If I'm honest. Kind of comforted. Just because you're going to have more. I would say more immigrants and more expats. In a smaller location. Or a more small town vibe. That we can get to know. I don't necessarily want all of our friends. To just be immigrants. And expats. And I'm not saying that negatively. I want Portuguese friends.
Mark Burns
[ 00:20:50 ] To have a mix is going to be fabulous.
MEREDITH
[ 00:20:53 ] But I think that takes effort.
Mark Burns
[ 00:20:54 ] Oh, of course it does. And I think that's one of the things that's made it a bit harder. In Porto. Or in a larger city. Where to go to meet ups. Or things like that. There's a lot more effort behind it. And intentionality. Whereas I think in a smaller fishing village community, you're likely to trip over people that you can have conversations with. I mean, for me, the ideal scenario. We've had it here for quite a bit. You walk past a restaurant. You walk past a bar or a cafe or whatever. And you say hi. And you say hi back. So you get that sense of achievement. He's always loved this. And I'm really looking forward to that. A whole lot more. Because it's a small amount of people. It's easier. To do it with. And I think that's going to be a real win for us. Same for me.
MEREDITH
[ 00:21:50 ] Well, and the other thing is. It's obviously much slower paced. But Tavira itself when we visited. With this eye of like. We were trying to decide between Tavira and Lagos. Which are both lovely places. For different reasons. But Lagos is bigger. And it's a little bit. I won't say a little bit. It's a lot more commercial. But man, the nature and the cliffs, and the coastline there – it's almost enough to make you go. I don't care about it being commercial. But Tavira felt like a dreamy to me. There's a castle in the middle of the town, there's a river running through it; you hop on a ferry, and they take you to an island, Isla de Tavira. And it is the most beautiful, pristine beach – there are multiple ones. Like seafood restaurants right there, there's a beach bar, there's cabanas.
Mark Burns
[ 00:22:44 ] It just felt like, oh my god, we have this life; it's 11 miles long, with different beach names. Beautiful.
MEREDITH
[ 00:22:53 ] And so, the beach life kind of enticed me, 100%. And it's slower, just even slower paced. It's funny coming from corporate life, and running a real estate business, and all of that stuff. That we were just exhausted from, to come here, and do this adventure with not a whole lot planned. Is such a privilege, right? But the transition of that, of trying to peel that shit off of you, and try to figure out what does it mean to be productive, and what kind of lifestyle is actually worth it. Is actually what we're looking for. I think that's the crux of it with Porto. I love Porto, I just don't know if I could live here forever. And so, if I know that. And you know that. Then we need to go explore some more.
Mark Burns
[ 00:23:45 ] There's a time to pick up.
MEREDITH
[ 00:23:48 ] That's kind of how we're approaching it. I think. Is there anything else about Tavira that made you. Well, I know one of the requirements. Obviously, we still didn't want to have a car. And we were looking at places in the Algarve. It was important to us. And we've mentioned it on a prior podcast. Where it's like: if you don't want a car, then you need to be in a place that at least has a train station. Or accessibility to other forms of transportation. That you can use to go and come, and all that other stuff. And Tavira does have a train station. And it's freaking adorable. So, that was one of the things that checked the box for us.
Mark Burns
[ 00:24:29 ] It was ground floor. We could let the dog out. She had a lot more greenery. Literally out the front of the door. No more 63 steps up. No, definitely not. Not even 20. And the place that we found. We've been lucky enough to have a great landlord. From the get-go. Swimming pool. Availability. It's just. Again, it's just another adventure. Another option for an adventure.
MEREDITH
[ 00:24:59 ] There were definitely requirements for us. It's like once we found Tavira. Or the area to be the place we wanted. Those were the things about the apartment. That we were looking for. Outdoor space for the dog. Outdoor space for us. The pool and the grounds and all of that stuff. It was just. It's more of a beach life type. You wake up and you think.
Mark Burns
[ 00:25:20 ] It's 8 o'clock. I'm waiting for the dog. And then I go to the pool. So yeah. I think it's just. A great opportunity to. Refocus. What do we want next? Where do we want it next?
MEREDITH
[ 00:25:36 ] So if you haven't looked up Tavira. You should. If you haven't put it on your list. Of places to go. While you're traveling in Portugal. You should. All those things. For sure. If you have questions that we're not addressing. Or if you just want to. Submit a question for us, as we do these once in a while, you've heard them before probably, and so we'll probably do one of those soon. We will have a follow-up. Second part, taxes with Hui soon. We're also going to be interviewing our attorney here in Portugal. Really more along the lines of like what services he can help you do if you are trying to get your ducks in a row to move, so if you need a NIF, bank account, lease review, all those kinds of things he does. Also helps people negotiate and buy homes. So we're also going to have him on, and we're also going to interview I'm hoping, I haven't gotten a confirmation yet. But I would love to start interviewing people. Who have moved over here. In different situations.
Mark Burns
[ 00:26:48 ] Different places. Different reasons why they moved. And what they moved with.
MEREDITH
[ 00:26:54 ] And one dog. That's a very different experience. Than you're moving with your whole family. Or you are empty nesters. Who are struggling to leave. Your adult children. In the US. And so we're hoping that we will. Find the right people to come on. Yeah absolutely.
Mark Burns
[ 00:27:14 ] I also wonder about. Getting hold of. One or two of our Portuguese friends. And having them on as well.
MEREDITH
[ 00:27:22 ] That would be fun. Yeah.
Mark Burns
[ 00:27:25 ] It's like what do you really think. Awesome.
MEREDITH
[ 00:27:29 ] Well thank you guys so much. One more little plug. If you haven't seen, we are building a community. Membership that. We currently have a wait list for, until it's ready to go. And we're going to start doing if you join the membership, we're going to start doing weekly live meetups. Where we're spending 15-20 minutes talking about something that we feel is important and valuable in terms of like, the whole process of potentially moving over here. The membership is really focused on two things. Number one, helping you decide whether moving abroad is for you. And the second thing is helping you decide if Portugal is the right place for you. If you're going to move abroad. And we want to be. The support that helps you do that. And so. We're going to be opening that up soon. But for now. There's a wait list that you can join. And we will email you when we are ready to open the doors. But you can find that on our Stan store. Stan . store. Slash Portugal Junkies. And you can click right in there. To the community page. And leave us your email. And we will email you. We're very excited about this.
Mark Burns
[ 00:28:46 ] Don't forget about the itineraries.
MEREDITH
[ 00:28:49 ] Mark's been doing customized itineraries. For people who are traveling abroad. In Portugal. So that's really cool too.
Mark Burns
[ 00:28:57 ] So basically having a console, hotels, and where to go. The hidden places we've found. How to spend a lazy day. All kinds of stuff.
MEREDITH
[ 00:29:06 ] History buffs. Things like that. Anyway if we can help you with any of that. Let us know. If you have questions that you want us to field from you. Send us a message. We're just so thankful for your support. And your continued listening. We'll see you next time.
Mark Burns
[ 00:29:25 ] Thank you very much. Cheers, y'all. Bye.
MEREDITH
[ 00:29:28 ] Listen up, future expats! For more content about our move, the visa process, Portuguese culture and destinations, and tons of support resources. For your own decisions. And potential move abroad. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Portugal Junkies.
Mark Burns
[ 00:29:46 ] Stay in touch. And help us reach more people. By subscribing here and following us there.
MEREDITH
[ 00:29:52 ] Cheers, y'all.