Meredith

[ 00:00:08 ] Welcome back, Portugal junkies! Hello, we are super excited because today we actually have a guest on who I'm so happy has agreed to say yes and come on the pod today. Um, a little background: So we've had a lot of you reach out to us and say, 'You know, I love following your story but um, hello y'all don't have kids and uh, I don't know how to equate your experience to like what we're considering because like, the biggest thing that keeps me from going abroad or moving to Portugal even is that I have kids and I have adult kids, even those who are not going to be able to come with us if we were to choose it. And so the ask was: why don't you interview some Different family structures that have done the same things that you have, so we have asked Heather to join us today and we're so excited she's going to give her perspective a little bit about what her family structure was like and the experience of deciding to move and now that she's here, what that's like. So yes, so welcome Heather, we are so excited you very happy to be here, I'm so thankful that you said yes and are willing to come on and share with us; um, I think because it's about time to say, I look forward to hearing more more from you; what I think you said about being able to work in Portugal, I'm looking forward to working that.

HEATHER

[ 00:01:50 ] all the other stakeholders everybody the people in portugal are really passionate about perspective i would always like toProfessor Kate shelley thank you so much for being here i'd be really grateful to have um uh hearl said you too yeah and we we this is a really good conversation which is um we would make sure that you have instruction for anyone in portugal that knows their career speaking knowing that you know they know how things are dealing with the life and you being a growth are you like a child create participation and that's a really tablespoons the interplay a lot so i i would like had been getting worse and Worse because of the hurricanes, you know. Um, they're just jacking up prices, and our little neighborhood was getting flooded several times a year when hurricanes would come, and just the whole ordeal – at least four times a year, you've got to pack up everything inside, get all your supplies; it's just big, it's a lot of work. Um, so we came out to visit a friend here in Portugal and I think it was uh 2021 and he had been here a couple years and he said, 'You know, just come and visit, let's just check it out.' We've never been, so we're like, 'Sure,' and we came and visited him while we were here visiting him. A huge like category for hurricane. Started coming right toward our home, then we were here and we were not prepared because it was we; it wasn't coming when we came here, and then, and then, it was so, we had to call in our neighbors and our friends to please you know, batten down hatches at our house, and it looked like it was going to be a direct hit, like devastating. It ended up hitting, like two hours south of us, and that town; it was Fort Myers, got leveled, like completely ruined, like uh, they're still rebuilding years later. So we were sitting there, like terrified, and all of we're just thinking, all of our assets, everything we own, everything that means anything, anything. That is um financially viable for us, our home, our cars, our boats, our kids-like all of the things could be just wiped away in an instant and we're in our, you know I'm 50 um and I just guess we're in a place where we were like, do we want to gamble every year that our entire life savings and life assets are going to be potentially taken away at any time? It's just, it was a lot. So being here in Portugal when that happened was kind of like and we were talking to our friend here, he lives in Algarve and uh, he said there's really no hurricanes here, there's there's fires occasionally and we're like, oh my god, we're going to have a hurricane because It's dry, and we just had this earthquake here in Portugal right now, of course, like months after I moved here, they've had in 15 years, but sure, okay.

Meredith

[ 00:04:12 ] Yes, I mean not hurricane-closer to you than it was to us by far because we didn't even know it happened so oh yeah, we felt it; we definitely felt it like it shook the house but you know coming from a hurricane, I was and that was like that was four seconds; like hurricanes are long.

HEATHER

[ 00:04:28 ] But anyways, um, so yeah, I maybe maybe there's other things we can do uh to not have to be so scared every year that that our whole life is going to be turned upside down and then of course there was a lot going on in Florida. Politically, with the governor just stripping away rights after rights after rights from you know, um, abortion bans to book bans to changing the history like whitewashing the history of books and education. I'm uh, was an educator for 17 years, so this was very important to me, and I was just kind of, kind of had it, uh, with the politics of it, and I was like, 'Oh my god, I'm going to do politics in Florida.' Our oldest was in college already, our youngest was a one year away from college, so we were like, if we're going to move, we wanted to move somewhere that would be beneficial for them also. My husband's grandfather is uh, was from Mededa. Portugal, so he had we have that uh connection so he can get citizenship through bloodline so we were like if we are going to go somewhere we talked about going to like the Cayman Islands my husband is from Trinidad um Trinidad's not super safe right now so we wouldn't go back there but we talked about some island life you know um but eventually we decided like we wanted to have the European experience and be able to have our kids be able to have the European experience so because he can get the citizenship and passport really the EU passport is what we wanted um Portugal made sense uh and for the kids also so we thought okay. We're gonna put our house up for sale, we're gonna see what happens and um talk to the kids about it. We brought them out a year later uh the next summer to Portugal for the first time for two weeks and we drove all around Algarve because we thought we were going to be in Algarve that's where our friend was from and we didn't find anything that felt like home, nothing hit us, and we drove like literally coast to coast um on our and it wasn't working, and uh so we were like maybe Portugal isn't for us, like okay that's fine we can accept that uh but then on our last two days we were in Lisbon and my husband remembered he had a friend Who lives here in Eddy state, which is where we ended up, and he called her and he's like, 'What do you recommend? What are we doing?' She's like, 'Portugal is for you. I know you guys; you're just looking in the wrong place.' And she was right; um, she's like, 'You have to come to my town. You have to look in my town.' I've been here three years; it's so great. And she was a realtor, so um, immediately I'm online at Idealista, looking for houses. Yeah, um, and she looked at some houses. So I was like, 'Okay, I'm gonna go to this for us and we ended up in in this house that we bought. We've put our house up for sale; it sold before it even went on the market, like just by pure luck. and the guy who bought it last year yeah was it in 2023 2020 uh oh god it's all a blur now 2023 yes we sold our house in our in august on 23 yeah um and the guy who bought it had was in a divorce and he was like would you sell me your furniture because I will never be able to decorate a house like this and my wife took everything and I was like actually yes and so we sold the house with the furniture which helped a lot we didn't have to move anything and we got a little extra money to buy furniture over here so it all just kind of like everything kind of fell into place we were able to sell the boat sell the cars we got an apartment um for the last Eight months that we were in Florida before we actually made the move, my daughter, uh, is who is the youngest; she entered her freshman year that year, so we said we would stay through her first year of college to make sure she was like settled and comfortable and had made friends and everything. Um, so it all just kind of fell into place and it all kind of worked.

Meredith

[ 00:08:17 ] So you have two kids that are in college still in the U. S. correct?

HEATHER

[ 00:08:23 ] So my son is 21; he's a senior this year at FSU in Florida, and my daughter is 19. She's a sophomore at UF so um, we hope that she's doing well; she is, she is, thank you.

Mark

[ 00:08:38 ] She had yeah, that was fun as well, but specifically your daughter, yeah.

HEATHER

[ 00:08:43 ] So uh, the only only thing we were like hesitant about moving like the only hold back was the kids obviously because uh, that's all you care about as a parent, that's all you worry about; like you want to be there should anything happen and I think we uh, they were okay with us and we were okay with them and we were okay with them and we were okay with it even if they weren't like they they said they were because they knew that we were excited about it. They're very mature and and nice in that way but they said they were okay with it and they gave us their blessing and uh, we luckily have a very very strong network of friends. In uh, the city that we were in Florida, so we just kind of said, like, you know these are your aunties, call them if anything happens, right? You know, uh. So, in May of this year, like we moved in March on March 20th, this year, and then in May, just two months after we moved, like the worst nightmare that you would think, the thing that you're worried about when you have kids and moving away probably the one thing that like you were really worried about happening ever when you decide to go across an ocean and leave your adult children behind, and that's exactly what happened, like the worst case scenario, the thing you you never want to happen. um my daughter who was at the time in our town she was staying in the apartment that we had still had there we had planned to keep the apartment through the summer so when she came home from college she would stay there be able to stay there um and our son was up in North Florida in an internship and she had not we talked to them every day and she had not uh responded the next day we talked to her the night before she said she wasn't feeling well she had said she wasn't feeling well a couple days before I told her to go to the doctor she made the doctor's appointment but then canceled it because she said she felt fine the next day and Then the next day, she still was feeling bad so I said, 'Just go to urgent care because now of course it's the weekend and doctors are closed,' so I just go to urgent care she went to urgent care. She went to urgent care; they tested her for strep and mono and it was negative, so they sent her home. We talked to her that night and she didn't sound good but she was sick, so I was like, 'Just get some rest, whatever.' The whole next day we didn't hear from her at all which was very weird, so um I messaged my son; I'm like, 'Hey, have you heard from her? Is she on Snapchat at all? Like are you seeing is she just awake and busy whatever?' He didn't respond to me, and then um I started like getting A pit in my stomach, something's not good. And within 10 minutes of me thinking that, her two best friends messaged me and said 'Hey, um, Miss Heather. We haven't heard from for a little while. Is everything okay I think I choked up about it. I'm sorry, we... um, yeah. So I called my best friend in our town, and her house is like five minutes from the apartment, so I called her to say 'Hey, go check on her.' The apartment. And when I answered the phone, I said 'Hey,' and she said 'Hey, Heather. You talked to your son.' She said his name; I'm not going to say his name, but she said 'You talk to your son' and I said 'No, he's not responding to me.' Why? She goes, 'I'm here with your daughter uh with the with the ER the EMTs um they're they're doing everything they can and that's what I heard and I was like what do you mean and they're like she said she's she's unconscious um they're trying to find a pulse and see it um she's breathing lightly so they're they're doing everything they can they're going to take her to the hospital now and so it's like what is happening what's going on I don't know like I talked to her yesterday um anyways so luckily my son had been super mature and vigilant he was 20 at the time or 21 and he had also noticed she was not responding and he called our neighbor in the apartment complex luckily The neighbor was home, he told. And had a key, he told the neighbor go in and check on her, and uh the neighbor did. And while he she was on the phone with him, like she walked into the apartment, and she said, 'Oh my God, I have to call 911 and she hung up on him, so he was like, 'What is happening?' So he had called my friend which is how she ended up there already before I even talked to her because he had already alerted her like, 'Get over there now, something's going on.' And he didn't call me back when I had asked him about it because later I found out he said, 'I didn't want you to worry' because I knew you're in Portugal and there's nothing you could do until I knew what was going on so, in his like 21-year-old mind, he's solving saving his sister's life, solving a crisis, dealing with that emotion by himself with my friends who are also his aunties and there for him, but he's in North Florida, there's nothing he can do; he's calling in all the resources and he's also trying to not bother me right out what's going on. So, anyways we booked a flight within six hours, we were on a plane, and uh, the longest flight of our lives, of course, you know.

Meredith

[ 00:13:43 ] We didn't know she wasn't responsive; she wasn't talking, you didn't even know, I had nothing.

HEATHER

[ 00:13:50 ] And luckily, luckily um when she turned When both my kids turned 18, I did a power of attorney with them so that I would have access to their um medical medical records because once your kids are 18, you no longer have any information about their education or their medical records unless they give you permission. So we would have had no information had I not had that directive. Which I was able to to screenshot on my phone and send to my friend who showed it to the doctors and said, 'You can tell us information to pass to her because this is proof.' So thank God I had that! But for the 10-hour flight, of course, that flight did not have Wi-Fi so we had no access to anything. So for 10 hours, we didn't know if she was dead or alive or what had happened or what. Um, we got got to Florida, we raced to the hospital, um, and she was in I see neuro ICU, they still didn't at that time know what was wrong with her, she'd been unconscious for uh over 24 hours at that time, not talking, not responding, not nothing. Um, but um, this is too long, but long story short, she, she, um, she ended up in ICU neuro ICU for seven days. She, um, was eventually diagnosed with viral encephalitis, which is a brain infection, and they don't know what caused it still to this day, they said we will maybe never know, it could have been a variety of things, could have. Been a mosquito bite, yeah, um, so they just don't know what caused it, but it happened within four days of whatever happened, because she went down very quickly, right? Um, and she finally on like day three, she finally opened her eyes. My husband and I were taking shifts, uh, sleeping at the hospital with her, and she like barely opened her eyes, and I'm talking to her, and I'm like, 'You know we're here, you know we love you and she nodded when I said that, and that was her first movement. So I'm like, 'Okay, she can hear me, and she understands me' because they didn't know what cognitive function or or mobility she could have been, yeah, they didn't. Know how long she was going to be in the hospital, she didn't know how long she was going to be in the hospital. She was unconscious and because of the timeline it would have been a max of 16 hours that she was there, but we don't know when she fell unconscious, so they didn't know the damage if there was brain damage or whatever.

Mark

[ 00:16:18 ] She now, I mean in the sense of going from that point to the the progress of getting better-she got better every day, every day.

HEATHER

[ 00:16:28 ] They had her on it like every day through because they didn't know what was wrong with her initially; they thought she had a stroke because she was healthy. They threw every possible Drug at her, they had all the doctors on her; she was like an episode of House. I'm just about to say that we've just started watching the House, it was it was, and they said the doctor said that and every doctor that came in; they were like, 'Oh, we've heard about her, oh we know about you.' Um, because they had all different kinds of doctors, because they didn't know is it neurological? Is it hepatitis? Is it liver damage? They didn't know, like, where it was or what was the problem. She's a healthy 18-year-old girl, who suddenly is like completely in a coma, basically. Um, so uh, they finally figured it out and they had thrown every drug at her. So, she started recovering and every day like one day she you know sat up then the next day she like recognized people and then she slowly came back like every day she learned, she had to learn to swallow again to eat again to walk to talk. Her memory came back the slowest. She was not aware yet who some of us were. She didn't know her age; she kept saying she was 14. Like they would ask for the same questions every every day to see like where to progress with, and she was in her mind, she was 14, for several several days but she finally, you know, came back to; she was released from the hospital, uh, eight or nine days later and she walked out of the hospital, which is crazy because I have videos of her, like, holding her up, and she couldn't even stand on her own, and just every day, like, they were like, 'Oh, she took her medicine' 'she took four steps today,' oh, she took a step, like, on a stair, a step up today, like every day, she made so much progress, and they attributed that to her being young and healthy, they were like, 'If this would happen to you, good luck but because you're healthy, she recovered; um, she had had plans to come out to Portugal anyway to visit us for the summer, she was going to stay with us for seven weeks, and this happened about two weeks Before she was supposed to come anyway, so when they let her out of the hospital, my main concern was will she be allowed to fly? Is it safe for her to fly? We didn't know about her circulation um we weren't sure she was on a um anti-seizure medication because they didn't know if she had seizures that were causing anything. I was like, is that going to be a problem in the plane? So we brought her back over to Portugal with us as planned a week later than what she was supposed to be there and um she had all her therapy here and it was honestly the best best thing for her to be here because it was such a slow pace. I felt like we were doing a good job. She didn't have the distractions of all her friends visiting and keeping her awake, which she would entertain as a you know, as a young lady. She's like, 'Yeah, sure come over but she didn't need those people. She needed rest, so being here and having a slow pace and just sitting outside and going to the beach and being quiet it was like the perfect recovery for her. She was here for six weeks; she's now back in Florida at school in an apartment by herself. Fully amazing, like amazing, amazing! So lucky girl, she really is. We think for parents who are worried about Sending your kids away, and that for this exact thing to happen like I can either be a cautionary tale for you and you can be like that's why I'm not going to do it. Or you can look at my story and say this happened but she had all the right things in place which is what I would advise you if you're going to move across the world, like make sure you have a strong network of friends, make sure that before you leave you have these health directives in place, and any power of attorneys in place. Make sure that you talk to the neighbors of wherever your kids are going to be and say this is our contact information, please contact or that so that You can contact them like if our neighbor and we had given our neighbor a key, like if our neighbor hadn't had a key to get in the apartment, I mean EMT probably would have broken through the door. But putting these things in place can make, uh, literally between life and death, so just have plans, have people who care about your family as much as you do, and it's okay, it's going to be okay. And I would say also since this has happened, my son has been amazing, and they, my son and daughter were already close, but now they're like super close. Their schools are about two and a half hours' drive apart from each other so they. He like he was in uh Chicago all summer for an internship and when he got back just like a week ago, he's like 'I need to drive down and see my sister and I was like 'You've been traveling, take a rest, you can see her like in a couple weeks' and he's like 'No mom, you don't understand, the last time I saw her she was tied up in wires, I haven't seen her up and moving like he, he was there for a few days but then he had to go uh so he was very anxious to see her looking healthy which he did and and sent us pictures but I think we're just all as a family so much tighter because this happened and we got through it together and I don't know, I think here's

Meredith

[ 00:21:43 ] The thing and this is I, I. We did a podcast a few weeks ago after we experienced the first loss and we knew that coming over here it's the sacrifice that you're going to make; it is literally the thing that keeps me like at night sometimes to go okay, we're making this choice for 11, 000 reasons positive, and yet you always know you're going to have some sacrifices that come with that right, and and that can be very different for everybody. But the big sacrifice for us was knowing that you're making the choice to move further away from at least my family, right because they live in North Carolina, um, and that you'll miss things and you. Won't be able to get back for things and you will lose people when you're gone that you can't be there for as easily as you might have if you never went right, and we did a podcast about I lost a very very good friend um and how painful that is in the moment when you're sitting here and you feel completely disconnected and helpless and all the things that you feel when when shit goes down but then I remember also having those moments of that's exactly why we did this did you have some of that realization after like you know processing something like almost losing a child, I cannot even imagine at all so just I would love to hear about

HEATHER

[ 00:23:23 ] Like how that to be honest, this happened like I said on May 20th. I'll never forget that day in my life ever, but um, to be honest, I'm still processing it. Like I still struggle; I still um, like literally, a week ago I went through the videos and photos from that time in the hospital because I hadn't looked at anything since it happened, and I was like, 'If you don't look at this, and watch this, and make yourself see it, and let yourself know it's okay, we're on the other side, it's okay.' Because in the moment, you're just trying to survive; you're just trying to get through it. Also, by the way, I'm in another freaking country; I'm not having Them, I'm not having them process it, I'm not having moving abroad yet and now I'm dealing with this so it was like I needed to, I needed to face it and like look at it like in the face, like a monster, and say, 'It's okay, she's okay.' Um, but I'm sure I'll be processing it forever. Like, I see things on TV of anyone in the hospital and I immediately start crying, and that is not something that I was ever, that's not who I am. But I still know those feelings are very raw when I like see something on TV and it chokes me. Um, I do think uh, having I don't know for for parents who who think like this is the worst thing just if If your kids are in college anywhere, I just say like, and all parents know this because you worry all the damn time. But like, anything can happen at any time, like she. This could have happened when we lived in Florida, and she was in college in Gainesville, two hours away, and I could have gotten to her in two hours instead of ten. But she still it still would have happened; she still would have been in the ER if your kids don't live at home with you, if your adult kids don't live at home with you, there's always the potential for something bad happening, and choosing to put your life or your dreams on hold doesn't change the potential for Something bad happening, and that might sound selfish, but it's just a reality. Like my son was in Chicago all summer if I had lived in Florida still, and he was in Chicago; something could have happened him in Chicago, and I wouldn't have been there. But he's an adult, and he has to live his life, and our you know our adult kids, you know some people like, 'Oh, she's 18, that was so young to leave the country.' My husband is from Trinidad; he moved out of Trinidad at 16 without his parents to come to the United States. Like he moved away at 16, and so many kids in Trinidad go to boarding school in Canada when they're 14, and it's another world away, like A long flight away, like a long flight away, like a long flight away, like a long flight away, like another country from Trinidad to Canada, but they all do it. You can't like not live your life. I don't know. Kids are resilient, yeah, they are.

Mark

[ 00:26:11 ] I can speak to it from a like from a reverse perspective, you know. Seven and a half, nearly eight years ago, I moved from England to the States, and you know I had to go through that same conversation with my parents about, 'Are you sure you don't mind me going?' Because you're getting old, you know. Um, my dad was always braking so hard in in education every time I went to university, every time. -campus anymore i could still see safety signs of od things are signs of um alzheimer's and cognitive declines and various other things and so those conversations were had and it was a case of look just go and live just go and do what you're going to do because if you don't everybody will regret it will feel that we've held you back and you'll feel that we've held you back all of those things and so yeah i went over um and that's where i met merida um i went i went over with one suitcase and that was it and match . Com, did the rest see that out loud can now um and you know a year and a half well, December two years ago um I got a phone call and I had like maybe four or five missed calls overnight what the hell is this you know? And then as I had my phone in my hand making ready to make a phone call, my brother called to say that my dad had passed. Now that happened it wasn't expected, I mean yes he was ill but it wasn't expected that day that week that month type thing and so to your point even if I'd been in England and not in America there would have been no difference as to how I could have responded um I think again it just draws to being true to yourself as to so long as you've got everything in place that you can possibly put in place and feel good. About what that is, I think that that should be enough to to promote pushing forward.

Meredith

[ 00:27:59 ] I also think that you've set an example for your kids, yeah, I mean again, this is so you know I wanted, I want this podcast, I want to share different people's stories with listeners, for for people who are potentially thinking of doing this and you know we're never going to hit on all cylinders for every person who's listening to this podcast, so I think that's a good idea. I think that's a good idea that's in the situation um or motivated by the same things, but I can tell you right now that I do not think what you've done is selfish by any means, right. You said selfish and immediately I thought, 'No, it's realistic.' Right? It's like, I think we can turn around that in our own selves and be like, 'Am I being selfish?' Because I know how that might feel. But like, from the outside, it's like you choose to go and live for yourself, and also choose to come to Portugal because you knew it would also be good for them eventually. There's a whole nother podcast and I can do on this subject um but I just again, I love the perspective that you're giving people, that it's like, you can only do so much right? If if you want to teach your kids how to really live for themselves and dream pretty big then. do it yourself and do the things that you were talking about to put in place is there anything else like you've you not you like hit on some very pragmatic like here are some things that i would definitely do yeah is there anything else or advice that you would give people who are thinking about doing what you've done with adult children in the u .

HEATHER

[ 00:29:40 ] s in mind like you were talking about the medical directives and you were talking about you know keys to access of the apartment all that is there anything else that you can think of or advice that you would give someone that's like very like these are things that you would give to them and i think that's a really good idea that i can actually go and do and prepare and make myself feel like i've done as much as i can to prepare for the move i don't know i'm pretty i'm pretty type a i'm pretty organized and and of all about like spreadsheets and stuff over prepared for this move in every possible way but you can't prepare for the unexpected so i don't i think the the biggest thing i can say is do what you can what you know to do and just be ready to be flexible because the best laid plans are shite you know your kids best some kids at 18 are not ready to be independent um both of my kids have uh worked jobs like 20 hours A week, jobs since they were 16 um because they both wanted cars and we were not going to supply those for them um we were supportive in helping them get a car but they had to pay for the stuff themselves so they've been working jobs and they've been working jobs and they've been working jobs and they've learned about time management; they've been responsible. Both of them lived through Covid in high school, so they have learned how to be self-directed when it comes to school work. So I knew that I'm not the mom that was like, 'Did you do your homework?' That's not me. If you don't do your homework, these are yours. Consequences, uh, you will go to summer school and while all your friends are out on the boat having fun, so that's it, that's all I'm saying, that one time, and I'm not going to chase your homework. Don't do your homework, but this is what you're missing out. So my kids have just, I know my kids, and they're super independent, super responsible, very organized. Um, and I think I didn't really worry about them. But not every kid, you know, kids develop a different level, so you know your kid, maybe you want to wait till your kid is uh a sophomore like we, we purposely waited the first year till our daughter was done because we wanted her to have friends. and have a base and feel like settled we didn't want to like have a base and feel like settled we didn't want to like have a base and feel like settled we didn't want to like have a base and feel like settled we didn't want to have her go to college and we have her go to college and we hightailed it out because we we would have been you know that would have been like a little too much change at once i think for all of us so i think you know timing is we would have been you know that would have been like a little too much change at once i think for I think for all of us so i think you know timing is important think about uh what timing makes sense For your family.

Meredith

[ 00:32:07 ] Actionable advice no, I think that you know that if I'm thinking back to when I was 18 and I for your family. I sometimes feel very told that you were like cute for being in a big school head school but you know I started to like, like being really honest about things right? I was like, 'they're moving to Portugal.' I'm still in the freshman year of college when it comes to moving abroad. And there are some days when I just want to go home. And then there are some days where I'm like, 'I'm having the best time of my freaking life.' I love that analogy because, but it doesn't, I really like that piece of advice for people who are thinking about like the timing of something. Cause you know, you have some parents who might be like, yeah, when they hit 18, like we're going to go do what we want to do. And then you've got this other group of people who really have a dream that they want to realize for themselves and they want to do right, obviously by their kids too. And so what does that even look like? And it can be, it can run the gamut. Right. And I know it's very individual based on kid, like what you were just saying. I do like that idea of like, you know, timing and, you know, how mature are your kids?

Mark

[ 00:33:10 ] You know, obviously in addition to the extraordinary happenings that have gone on for you already, do you find that any, do you find that there's any other struggles or any other hurdles that you sort of felt now? I mean, whether they're because of what happened with your daughter or not from moving as a family set apart as you are today, do you find any differences that you might look back on now and go, 'ah, yeah, I would change that.' Or I'm pleased that we did this because.

HEATHER

[ 00:33:53 ] Yeah. Sometimes. So we, the only people asking, what do you miss? Like it's silly. The thing that I really miss is our home, like our actual physical house. I rewe really love that house. We renovated it from top to bottom. So, it was exactly made to our specifications and we had some good memories and some really bad memories, like with our kids in there too. But it was just, you know, it was our home. So, uh, sometimes I wish like, or I think did, should we have rented the house instead of sold it so that, um, if the kids want that house back someday for themselves, um, we could have given them that house. Cause they'll never be able to afford it. Not in this market. Yeah. The, the, the home, like that was another reason that we had kept that apartment through the summer because my, our kids were like, okay, that's great. You're moving. But like, what about spring break? Where do I go for that? Thanksgiving? What about summers? Where am I supposed to stay? So that first summer we had kept the plan to keep the apartment through August so that they, both kids, if they came home, home back to our town for the summer, that they would have a place to stay that had their furniture in it. That was familiar or some, not all their furniture. Cause it was sold, but you know, some things that were familiar, um, for that place. Uh, now that apartment is no more, they have nowhere to stay when it is, um, other than friends, which again, that's a conversation we have with our friends. And of course our friends are like, yes, they stay with us for Thanksgiving. Absolutely. Christmas. We hope to either be able to go back if we can get our freaking residency cards or, or we want them to come here for Christmas, um, summers. We want them to come here and we, I'm sure they would want to because, and they can bring their friends. We have a house that has bedrooms for friends. So, um, that was why we bought this house to have room for people to visit. So they will come here more.

Meredith

[ 00:35:51 ] Right. And you're creating a different life for them. They have the opportunity. I mean, I never left the States until I was like, I don't know, mid-thirties or something. You know what I'm saying? Like I, and I, you can say, I wish I could have, should have, whatever, but like, you know, having parents who like lead by example like that, like, and expose their kids to the big wide world that is out here. I mean, I and I'm, I'm not faulting my parents, but I'm just saying, it's like, you know, my whole world was changed when we really started traveling and really started going to, to truly different places that are unlike anything you ever experienced growing up and was so uncomfortable or so outlandish to your own experience that you're like, well, damn, what else is out there? That's the kind of thing. It's not just, Oh, my kids can come and live in Europe. With me. It's bigger than that.

HEATHER

[ 00:36:51 ] I think it is. And I think a step further past that is that we, by example, have shown them that it's okay to do scary things. It's okay to do hard things and it's okay to be uncomfortable and it's okay to do the unexpected and try new things. And if it doesn't work, that's okay too. But just, I think, especially, I don't know. I just really, I'm proud of us making this move and then seeing that and being like, you know what? I can do anything. I can do, I can do anything. Look what my parents did. I think that I feel like is the biggest gift of this. Like, yes, they'll get their little EU passports and that's a pretty freaking good gift. But I think also just the gift of like, like you're saying, just a bigger world perspective and the knowledge that like, there's no limits. Like you can do anything at any stage in your life. It's not like you're 50, you're old, it's over. Now, now my kids are moving away and they've graduated and they've got jobs and they've moved to other States and now I'm in this house. And then what I'm just supposed to sit around and wait for grandkids.

Mark

[ 00:37:57 ] No, I'm going to have my life. Again, you know, moving.

Meredith

[ 00:38:01 ] Don't you know that's your role? Somebody said that that was your role. Grandmother. That was right.

Mark

[ 00:38:07 ] I mean, moving, moving from England to, to, to the States as a, you know, as a single person with a suitcase and starting a fresh job in a, in a city that I knew nobody, literally, not a soul. I think the only person that I knew was the realtor that I was working with in order to find me the apartment. And he was a lovely guy, but you know, not somebody you'd want to go and hang out with. And it was just, I think in, you know, from my parents' point of view, that was in the army. So we spent a lot of my years, all of my years, really just traveling around different places. And then that kind of gave me the wanderlust to, to, to go and explore it. You know, do different things and have different adventures and live in different countries, even if it was for, you know, living in Italy for a month or Sweden or whatever. And I think that again, opening up opportunities at whatever stage of life and whatever, whether you, whether you're thinking about children or whether you're thinking about older parents, I think the two are linked. They're just a different conversation path.

HEATHER

[ 00:39:17 ] People you have to care for. People you're responsible for.

Mark

[ 00:39:21 ] Because that, that whole thing changes as you go through life, you know, the whole age perspective.

Meredith

[ 00:39:29 ] Oh yeah. I mean, I had to, I mean, I literally, I had a conversation with my parents. I mean, I'm 45 years old and I was like, I'm lucky enough to have parents that I adore and who adore me. And we've always been within four or five hours of each other. Like this is, this has been how life was. And so when we started doing, thinking about doing this, or when we actually like started the visa process and that day I was like, okay, I just need to like have a conversation because I, I needed their blessing. That's what it was. I needed their blessing. I mean, you know, my dad says, 'You don't need my permission.' I said, 'I didn't ask for permission.' Those are two different things, but he knew what I meant. I know what he meant, but I mean, I think that's what it is. I think he is sassy. I think that's what it is, is that you want, you want the support, but not necessarily at the detriment of like, if you're going to do it or not. Right. And that's how, you know, if we're, if you're lucky, you do get the support of the people around you. And if you're not [something], then that's when it becomes kind of more of a struggle, like these conversations that we're having, not that your kids gave you a struggle, but it's like that, like strife, of what I feel like I should do, but I'm obligated to do what, you know, people think I should do, all of the things; you know, everybody's going to have an opinion about you and what you're doing, and all the things. Yeah.

Mark

[ 00:40:59 ] The only one that matters is the people you care about. Yeah. The rest of it is just background noise.

Meredith

[ 00:41:07 ] Such a story, Heather. My gosh, though. Like, I just, I think that you're, it's funny that you say I can either be a cautionary tale or, but I think that this is actually a really, really good story for people to hear because I think ultimately is what it comes down to is that you can't control everything and you being here didn't stop what happened there. And it probably wouldn't have, if you were there, it's just, you know, it's just how it goes. But I'm glad to know that she is doing so, so well. I mean, gosh, it's a miracle, honestly. Yeah. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_3

[ 00:41:46 ] Yeah.

Meredith

[ 00:41:47 ] Well, are there, are there certain ways that people can connect with you that you want to highlight? I want to make sure that like, cause I'll be honest with you guys, Heather, TikTok queen. She's like my, my TikTok guru.

HEATHER

[ 00:42:04 ] Yeah. I have a TikTok page, which is called the mindful migrants where I just kind of share my story and I have playlists for moving to Portugal, moving abroad, moving with dogs. Like all the questions you might have are probably answered in those playlists. I just, just started doing consultations through expats. See that link to book a consultation with me is on the main page of my TikTok. So you can click that if you want to chat with me or ask questions. Yeah. But I just really, I'm thankful that you invited me.

Mark

[ 00:42:40 ] I think I can't remember when it was the first time that I saw one of your, I think it was the very first time that I saw you like, where are you living? Whereabouts is this? Cause it was sort of off the coast or coastline. Where's that? Where's that? And didn't have a clue. And then obviously just through following you. But yeah, it's, it's been a, it's been a joy to watch your commentary because I think one of the things that we are obviously quite in line with is from a, you know, from, from political perspectives, which drives a style of living or a style of maturity towards other people, shall we say. And I think, again, that was another thing that I've enjoyed watching. Cause when you know, somebody calls you out, it's like, okay, let's just sit down and grab a cup of coffee because I'm going to tell you what it's like and go. And I love that because it's genuine, it's real, it's unedited. I would, my husband would wish I would edit. Is he sitting behind the camera going, 'no, stop.'

Meredith

[ 00:43:45 ] We gotta, we gotta lead, we gotta lead in a different way as a baby. Sure.

SPEAKER_3

[ 00:43:49 ] True.

Meredith

[ 00:43:50 ] Like Kamala said the other day, she looked at, there was a quick little snippet of her and a little girl the other day that I saw on TikTok and she leaned down to her and she said, 'don't ever ask permission to lead.' And I was like, yeah, I love her.

HEATHER

[ 00:44:08 ] Anyway. A little girl asked her about like being the public speaker. I'm sure you saw this, but I loved her response-it was like, can think about being on the Titanic and you're the only person that knows it's going down and you have something so important to say, and people need to hear it. And there'll be people who don't want to hear it. And there may be people who don't want to listen to you because you're just a little girl, but you know, this is important information and you've got to get it out there. So you don't care what you look like. You don't care what you sound like. You just have to get that message out. And I was like, that's such good advice. And that's how I feel like the message of being a mindful immigrant, being respectful of the cultures that are welcoming you, is such an important one. It's not about coming to a country and just taking advantage of all the things that country has. It's also about contributing back to that country, and being respectful, and well, you know, if you want to be accepted, if you want to integrate and assimilate.

SPEAKER_3

[ 00:45:06 ] Yeah.

Mark

[ 00:45:07 ] I love it. Awesome.

Meredith

[ 00:45:11 ] Thank you so much. Thank you guys. Listen up future expats for more content about our move, the visa process, Portuguese culture and destinations, and tons of support resources for your own decisions and potential move abroad. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Portugal Junkies.

Mark

[ 00:45:31 ] Stay in touch and help us reach more people by subscribing here and following us there.

Meredith

[ 00:45:37 ] Cheers, y'all.