MEREDITH
[ 00:00:08 ] Welcome back, Portugal Junkies!
Mark
[ 00:00:10 ] Hello, hello!
MEREDITH
[ 00:00:10 ] We are coming to you today with, like, good spirits. It's been a little while. Yes, it has. Especially listening to last week's episode, I was like, man, we bitched a little bit, but it's okay.
Mark
[ 00:00:22 ] No, we bitched a lot a bit.
MEREDITH
[ 00:00:24 ] It's okay.
Mark
[ 00:00:24 ] But that's fine. We needed that. In fact, I think there were, like, several comments on, you know, that we got back from people saying, yeah, that's what I needed to hear. It's not just me in a silo. That's right. I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy. And it's like, heck no, you're not. You're just.
MEREDITH
[ 00:00:42 ] Heck no, you're not.
Mark
[ 00:00:43 ] Well, that isn't what I wanted to say, but, you know. You can say 'bitching', but you can't say 'hell'? Yeah, it's still quite early. But also, I can't say 'awesome', because that's just really strange.
MEREDITH
[ 00:00:55 ] So back in the day, when we first started dating, he used to pick on me. As an American, you said 'awesome' a lot. All the time. And then I realized how often I do say it.
SPEAKER_3
[ 00:01:05 ] Yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:01:05 ] I think it's very, like, oh, Americans are awesome. That's what you think when you hear the word 'awesome', right? Right.
Mark
[ 00:01:11 ] I think it comes back from, like, all those days of watching American TV shows.
MEREDITH
[ 00:01:16 ] Like what? Oh, God. Oh, I shouldn't have asked you a pop culture question.
Mark
[ 00:01:20 ] Don't ask me that. Move along, we'll be here all day.
SPEAKER_3
[ 00:01:22 ] Keep it going, like 90/210?
Mark
[ 00:01:25 ] No, no? Baywatch? No, no? Baywatch? We'll be like that. I don't know.
SPEAKER_3
[ 00:01:34 ] Okay. So we had such a lovely week.
MEREDITH
[ 00:01:37 ] That's why we are in good spirits today. We did. I will give a disclaimer, though. I am a little sick, but it was the price I had to pay to have my three college girlfriends in town for three and a half days. And it literally was exactly what we all needed post-election. Because we were all just kind of in despair. And we had had this trip planned for, what, six months or so? Oh, gosh. Because they found a great ticket price a long time ago and swiped it up. So anyway, it was; we do this once a year. We all get together. And it's four of us total. We have known each other for 27 years. So we met our freshman year. Most of us met our freshman year of college. And that aged me right there, saying that out loud.
SPEAKER_3
[ 00:02:28 ] Yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:02:29 ] But we always get together once a year for the past. This is the 10th annual trip. And so it was our first international trip. So they came to see us.
Mark
[ 00:02:40 ] Well, more you; I know, but you're here. I was just, I was just a, you know.
MEREDITH
[ 00:02:43 ] We kicked Mark out.
Mark
[ 00:02:44 ] I was just adding eye candy.
MEREDITH
[ 00:02:45 ] We were, that's true. You were like our, you know, our chauffeur sometimes and our bringer of the pastries. Yeah.
Mark
[ 00:02:54 ] Breakfast, breakfast delivery.
MEREDITH
[ 00:02:57 ] But we did. We usually basically decide on a budget and then over leading up to the actual trip, we pay into a, like a fund. Yeah. Fund. So that when the trip actually gets here, only one of us has to worry about like swiping a card and we call that the sugar mama. And we basically, that way we are all paying the same amount no matter where we're coming from. And so this year it actually helped so much. For them to get over here to Portugal because it's a more expensive ticket. We usually stay in the U.S. And anyway, so basically, it was like the price of three tickets divided by four instead of three. And so we always love this method and it's been, it's working for us for like the past 10 years. And it's just been, it was so good this week. Like the weather was kind of shitty. I have to say I was very disappointed with that just because they didn't get to see. Beautiful, sunny Portugal. Yeah. Except for one day. Yeah.
Mark
[ 00:04:02 ] But again, it's still going to be here and they can still come back if, because we know you're listening. So.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:08 ] That's right.
Mark
[ 00:04:09 ] Mark it up.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:11 ] And we celebrated this one's birthday.
Mark
[ 00:04:13 ] Yep. 51 again. Yeah. Right. 26 again.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:18 ] It was a lovely dinner. Yeah. It was good. Delicious.
Mark
[ 00:04:22 ] That was very good.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:23 ] Yeah. So it was a lovely, lovely week. It was. And just while we're in better spirits. But we thought we would continue our kind of efforts post-election. And there's been a lot, a lot of inquiries coming our way about what can I do if I want to leave? Yeah. Even if it's not coming to Portugal, we've had a lot of people reaching out because I think people are more serious than they ever have been. Yeah. I mean, people have been threatening this forever.
Mark
[ 00:04:52 ] But like I said before, it's a case that even if it's not Portugal and it's somewhere else, then it's still going to have. The same element of needs and designs and requirements that may just be different.
MEREDITH
[ 00:05:03 ] And effects, and all the things that we've talked about on our podcast, yeah. But we thought we would talk about budget today. We've been meaning to do this episode for a long, long time. But now that we've moved to the Algarve and we've kind of gotten settled in, we thought that maybe this is the time to do it, especially after last week's episode about, you know, here's the first five steps that you would take if you're really serious about moving abroad. And specifically moving to Portugal. So we thought we would talk through our budget today.
Mark
[ 00:05:34 ] This is more household budget, yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:05:36 ] And I think, you know, there's been some requests too about like, and we've thought about this as well, and it may come, but how do we do an episode about financials that is valuable in a way that is not like, because you're comparing, right? Mm-hmm. You're inevitably going, oh, well, they did it this way and I don't have that. So I guess I'm going to throw my hands up and say, I can't do that. And I don't want that to be the result. If that's the kind of episode that interests you, I mean, we are willing to talk through those things probably at the expense of some retirement haters, quite frankly. Yeah. But, you know, our setup is different than most people. Most people are planning to leave a legacy. Yeah. They're planning to leave things behind to their children.
Mark
[ 00:06:30 ] Or they're on social security side of it already. Exactly. It's completely different.
MEREDITH
[ 00:06:34 ] We're in a situation where, I mean, if we got with one penny in our pocket, we'd be happy. Yeah.
Mark
[ 00:06:39 ] I mean, it's one penny too many, but, you know, sure. I'm thinking that going out with, you know, pretty much nothing there. That would be perfect. You've come in with nothing, you've gone out with nothing.
MEREDITH
[ 00:06:52 ] Right.
Mark
[ 00:06:53 ] That's a wash.
MEREDITH
[ 00:06:53 ] Well, all that to say that that's the disclaimer and the reason why we haven't really done that episode yet, because we're trying to think about how to frame that so that-It's worthwhile. It doesn't discourage anybody either, you know, because I think that it's kind of like I said on the last episode, you have to, like, talk to the right people and the right financial people to learn if this can work for you.
Mark
[ 00:07:15 ] It's got to be done based on what you, you know, what's right for you, simply. Right.
MEREDITH
[ 00:07:20 ] And don't assume that just because you don't have the exact structure, you're not going to have the exact structure of family, or plans for your future, or savings, or any of that, that you can't do this. Right. So that's why we've been leery about doing an episode, that it's so revealing about our finances with it. Yeah. But I think it's important. I think people, the number one thing is the money side of it.
Mark
[ 00:07:43 ] It's definitely set up, it's different for everybody, because everybody's an individual. Yeah. So, you know.
MEREDITH
[ 00:07:49 ] So anyway, if that's something that interests you, send us a note and maybe we'll do that. Yeah.
Mark
[ 00:07:53 ] Yeah. However. Budget. Getting on to today's budget.
MEREDITH
[ 00:07:57 ] Budget.
Mark
[ 00:07:58 ] Budget.
MEREDITH
[ 00:08:00 ] So we thought we would talk through our line items of our budget, now that we've moved to Tavira. Yeah.
Mark
[ 00:08:06 ] And bear in mind, these are our line items, and for some people there's going to be less, and for some people there's going to be more. But this, I think, will give you a good idea of the spread of what to expect, because it's no different to most people's everyday lives. Yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:08:23 ] And your choices will obviously could be different from ours. Right. In certain things. And so.
Mark
[ 00:08:29 ] And that'll reveal as we go through. Yeah. I mean, for instance, we don't have a car. Some people have a car. Right. So their budget is going to be different. Right. So, you know. Okay.
MEREDITH
[ 00:08:38 ] Well, then the first biggest line item is rent. Obviously. We decided to rent here, and we have; we will probably indefinitely for a while. Right. So that could be different for you if you decide to purchase. Yeah. But our rent here is 1,500 euros, and the disclaimer on that is, I still think it's high.
Mark
[ 00:08:58 ] It is. It is. But. It's high. It's, given what was available at the time, and all the conditions that were meaningful for us, it hit everything we wanted, and a couple of bits more. It didn't leave us short of any, like.
MEREDITH
[ 00:09:18 ] Big things.
Mark
[ 00:09:19 ] Big things. It is high. It is higher than one could spend in Tavira or in the area. But, you know, as they say, you do you, and this is us doing us. Would we like it cheaper? Sure. Are we going to get it cheaper? Maybe in the future. Who knows? Again, it's one of those things. It is what it is. Well, think about it.
MEREDITH
[ 00:09:42 ] This is our third apartment since we moved to Portugal.
Mark
[ 00:09:45 ] I've moved more times in Portugal than I think I did living for seven years in America. Which, for me, is quite a lot. But think about it. For three times, indeed.
MEREDITH
[ 00:09:57 ] Every apartment, we've paid less and less. Yes.
Mark
[ 00:09:59 ] Each time, it's been a scaled-down version, because we've gotten to know more, and understand more, and, you know.
MEREDITH
[ 00:10:07 ] And know what we can give up.
Mark
[ 00:10:08 ] Yeah. To pay cheaper rent. I think that's a big deal. That's a big deal, was the fact of, we thought when we moved here that we needed to have X, Y, and Z. And, actually, what we needed was X and Y, and Z could bugger off type thing. Yeah. You know? It makes you really realize what's important.
MEREDITH
[ 00:10:26 ] Yeah. I mean, our first
Mark
[ 00:10:27 ] - And what are you paying for that is not important?
MEREDITH
[ 00:10:29 ] Our first apartment was a two-bedroom plus a loft. Yeah. So, it could sleep six people plus people in the living room. Like, we didn't need all that space.
Mark
[ 00:10:39 ] But we came from a pretty large house in the States, and you're kind of not sure. Yeah. So, it's really revealing as to, again, different horses, different courses. But, it's a lot of work.
MEREDITH
[ 00:10:58 ] I mean, it's bullets in.
Mark
[ 00:11:02 ] So, you kind of want to give instructions to your collage. You've got to have 밤 staff.
MEREDITH
[ 00:11:04 ] You've got to have an entourage.
Mark
[ 00:11:06 ] All of that power out of the car is really something that cylinder robots are really And, we never have enough time to actually build an trzynour off feet .
MEREDITH
[ 00:11:08 ] Yeah. So, my Okay. That's your ac op. So, as you move the car up the stairs, you need to get you $30.
Mark
[ 00:11:21 ] Not required, it's not a requirement, I would highly recommend it's a requirement, though the visa process. True once you have your residency card, it is no longer a requirement; we've said this on the pod before.
MEREDITH
[ 00:11:34 ] We choose to have private insurance for health insurance because we're trying to be responsible immigrants. Meaning, the only time we really would have to use public health services here which is a huge bonus to being here isn't an emergency situation you're calling for an ambulance when you call for an ambulance they're gonna take you to public no matter what and that's just done. But if you have to schedule appointments you want to see a dermatologist you need to go to your OBGYN you need to do a blood panel all that stuff can be done through private if you have private insurance, and so we elected this and ours is €276, this is in euros. two hundred and seventy-six hundred and seventy -six hundred and sixty-six for both of us and we were presented with a number of options and we kind of went middle of the road because again we didn't know how it responds we we didn't want to err on the side of like bare bones or or speaking too much because we really are pretty healthy people yeah so that's the background on that number yeah for sure so with the health insurance it really comes down to what's your level of comfort you know if you if you have it it's a big plus you're not putting a soak on a system that's already treading underwater but
Mark
[ 00:12:59 ] He's there, is there, for you to use like any other national health system, but we wanted to play it from the point of being respectful because we haven't paid into it at all in any way, shape, or form, right? How are we gonna use it as an advantage? Right and we'll carry out that way. One thing and that is: I got some tablets, the other day, and it cost like two months worth of tablets and it costs me one euro 67, and that has nothing to do with insurance; nothing to do with insurance, that was a doctor's prescription for some tablets over the counter, a fancy! It's like crazy, it is crazy!
MEREDITH
[ 00:13:38 ] So, we and when we got our quotes, we got I mean there are
Mark
[ 00:13:44 ] some people that pay fifty to sixty thousand a month and then you're like oh man I'm 75 euros a person yeah so just so that you know that yeah so yeah that's that's to say that about the medical next utilities we got water averaging 50 euros a month again this is in a new place electricity averaging so far 60 and gas well we don't know for sure we think it's gonna be around about 20 so you know only eating our water right so utilities about a hundred and ten and I think that's about the same as we were paying in Porto so and this is a two bedroom now so comparatively it might be a little bit less we have smaller space maybe more bigger Yeah, but utilities are pretty pretty pretty affordable, really affordable, in that sense.
MEREDITH
[ 00:14:36 ] And we have the AC and heating units that are different for us, right? We're not used to splitting and turning them on and off when we need them, and we don't, so you're like, 'how hard is it running a house?'
Mark
[ 00:14:50 ] You better just leave it running full time.
MEREDITH
[ 00:14:52 ] We've been comfortable because we wanted to know what it was like in terms of how we normally use it. What's the price?
Mark
[ 00:14:59 ] Yeah, so absolutely bank fees 10 euros, yeah, nothing really.
MEREDITH
[ 00:15:11 ] I think most banks have that, yeah.
Mark
[ 00:15:13 ] Next line item for us is Vodafone; there's a couple of different providers out there. for your mobile phones we've enjoyed Vodafone we've never had a problem with them particularly and when we first got here we started on the pay-as-you-go which was 25 euros each for a pretty pretty good package when we got here into Tavira we decided to you know sort of settle down a bit more as to let's get a contract so our contract now is actually five euros each cheaper and 100 meg 100 meg or 100 gig a person so you know it's cheaper and now we've got a lot more so that's roughly 40 euros a month for both of us yes well 40 euros every four weeks right so that's somebody in Luis pointed that out to us yesterday but again just every Every provider is the easiest and most profitable business. Is going to be different, but we've not struggled with the phone so internet. We're now with Mio, we have that through the landlord; it was his system that was already in place. We weren't going to mess around with it and all the rest. That's € 37 a month and that's for 5G fiber, I think fiber. We've put a mesh system in the house and it's absolutely fantastic, I love it; I absolutely love it. No dead spots so coming on to some of the other higher price uh monthly uh monthly things now... What would that be? So, food and household food food and household items we've got down 400 euros and this is completely separate to restaurants and eating out, etc., etc. So this is roughly averaging 100 euros a month for everything that we want for eating drinking; sorry I wish it was €100, yeah that would be nice um so 400 a month my bad. Our groceries here are extremely inexpensive compared to compared to the US right but bear in mind we're only feeding two and a small part so again keep that in in the back of your mind as well and if you plan well you can probably do even better than us so next um line item is transportation uh as I said earlier, we don't have a car that's by design; I will say that in the last week having one then When your girls were over, yeah, it was pretty nice waking up. It's like, 'Oh, I'll just go to the um, to the bakery and pick up some stuff or I'll just nip to here, I'll pop to there. Um, you can be it's the convenience factor. But at this moment in time, I'm not prepared to spend what it would need to, to have that convenience, particularly based on where we live. Um, it's a 12-minute walk into town and it's a beautiful little stroll down there and a bit more of a hike back up, but it's the most important thing that I want.
MEREDITH
[ 00:18:16 ] A Vespa, yeah? You want a Vespa?
Mark
[ 00:18:18 ] Good luck with that, good. Luck for the rest of the world, oh come on, whatever. Um, so that transportation is 100 euros and that's pretty much for our training, yeah, I mean we, we don't use the train that much here, um, yeah, between place and place, but I think that's going to pick up a lot more, um, certainly as we get into the new year because we're going to want to explore more. We've got travels coming up in November and December for Christmas and things like that, so I think we're going to see how that budget item actually aligns with the realities back in like January, February, and as we go forward.
MEREDITH
[ 00:18:57 ] And Uber's here, like if you're just hovering around the town, it's
Mark
[ 00:19:00 ] Like, five euros, yeah, it's it's ridiculous. Um, I mean, I don't mean that, I just mean that if that's the rate, that's the rate; I'm not the one making it, I'm the one paying it, and it suits me down to the ground, and it really does. Um, the next line is restaurant and entertainment now this is something that we love because if you know anything about us, we love our food, and food, and wine, and food and drinks, and just getting all of that culture culture through those things. At the moment, we're running around about 500 a month; um, which some might say, 'Oh my gosh, that's so much and maybe it is; but at the same time, if you consider that an average Meal in a dinner for the evening is going to be I don't know between 40 and 60 euros, and that's been pretty conservative with that. You can see how you know, well that's 10 nights out to a week or you know things like this. So it's kind of pretty realistic, um, but there are times when we don't go out for three or four nights because we've spent 400 a month on groceries to eat in, so let's do that and go out on a Saturday and it might be 80 or 90 euros because we've gone to and had a couple bottles of wine instead of one. Right? So again it's horses and courses, but it's one of the things when we came here we knew that we wanted to experience yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:20:36 ] So, the other day, we had this our little favorite um spot down in the Tiburotown center to have our coffee and our misto and all those things. I think that our bill was like seven euros or something when we were done-two coffees and a pastry and a sandwich or something. And we sat out there and we enjoyed the weather and we enjoyed watching people walk by, and we heard people speaking all different languages around us. That feels like you're up to me, yeah. And so it doesn't necessarily mean that like I have to have some sort of four-star Michelin experience in a Portuguese dinner to feel like we are connecting with the culture. Yeah, right that's what it is for me and that's why that light item I think is important for us where it is but again it's choices it's things that you want to spend your money on, right, that's just how we spend it.
Mark
[ 00:21:33 ] It could be a whole lot less, it could be you know half a dozen pizzas a week in the uh in the in the freezer um and you know you're 20 euros in done um, but I think we've all graduated from college maybe um yeah so that that is what is for uh for us the last year we're just yeah cool you know we have a line item for travel which is because we inevitably like to go other places so I always put kind of like a miscellaneous thing in our mind.
MEREDITH
[ 00:22:06 ] Or travel, and together that's about €200; it's really just a buffer because we know that there are things that are going to come up that we hadn't planned, so yeah, that's where we are with that. Now, there are some things that we still have going on in the US that you might want to think about as well. We have some streaming things that we won't give up because it makes me feel comforted and like I'm at home to watch my Netflix or Peacock or Discovery. Anyway, so those things are on there. And things like insurance. Our life insurance isn't going anywhere. So that expense still exists, even though I think of it as in there was an expense oriented in the U. S., right? We have a pet insurance policy for Charlotte that we still have in place. And we will until we sell our house. What else was on the list? Oh, our car. We still have a car there. So we still have a car insurance situation. And also our small little U. S. telephone account so that we can save our phone numbers and have some coverage when we're in the U. S. And that's 14 something euros. Sorry, $14 a month.
Mark
[ 00:23:32 ] But again, that is something you can regret. What do you think about for two-factor authentications and things like that?
MEREDITH
[ 00:23:37 ] I would definitely set up, yes. Whether it's telephone or another whole other episode.
Mark
[ 00:23:42 ] Yeah, some sort of tech type of things. But so that won't involve me. But yeah, generally speaking, they're the big items over in the States. So where are we at now? If you're following along. So, drum roll. Our rough cost of living for the month here is around about $30,000 a month. So that's only 200 per day for the two of us and the dog, given all of the items that we've mentioned.
MEREDITH
[ 00:24:12 ] And I've seen people say, hey, can you live for €2,500 euros in Portugal? And I think the answer is yes.
Mark
[ 00:24:19 ] Yeah, I think that just goes to prove it. I mean, you know, you knock off 200 off the rent. You knock off more on the restaurant eating out. But again, this is what's going to hit or eat into your experience in Portugal. Yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:24:35 ] And right now, we're not willing to do that.
Mark
[ 00:24:37 ] Correct.
MEREDITH
[ 00:24:38 ] Because we just got here.
Mark
[ 00:24:39 ] Right. So later, it may become a necessity. Later, in order to stay here, these budget line items may change. We're going to be doing whatever it needs to happen to stay here, for sure.
MEREDITH
[ 00:24:54 ] But I think that's a good overview. And again, it's just a peek into our budget, our line items. And again, to each their own, right? You have to choose the things that are important. It's important to you and spend your money where you want to.
Mark
[ 00:25:07 ] The only other thing that I would add to the line items that will probably appear for next year is the gym. We have a gym just around the corner. And generally speaking, I think for two people, you could probably expect that to run between 70 and 90 euros a month. For us, it will be about 70 a month.
MEREDITH
[ 00:25:22 ] Yeah, so if I'm a person. Yeah.
Mark
[ 00:25:25 ] Different gyms, different prices. But even the one we had in Porto was about the same. So again, just as another consideration. If that's your thing. It's not necessarily our thing, but given that we're spending $500 on restaurants, we're going to need that. We're going to need to spend $500 on that. Just to counter the food and beverages, yes I've been detoxing this week.
MEREDITH
[ 00:25:51 ] Which is why I'm drinking coffee and sucking on a Hall's.
Mark
[ 00:25:55 ] And sucking on a Hall's.
MEREDITH
[ 00:25:56 ] Excuse me if you hear it. But anyway, hopefully this has been helpful, you guys. You know, we just thought maybe. I remember watching someone's YouTube about this before we moved. And I was like literally taking notes and writing down like what could our budget be? Like what would it actually cost us to live there on average? So hopefully this is helpful. And it can help you make decisions about where you're going to be, what you're going to do. Absolutely. If you're going to leave. All those things. Yeah. Please visit our Stan store in the bio of all of our social media. We have been doing a lot of different things to help listeners. So Mark is actually creating itineraries for folks. Especially around scouting. Scouting, and things like that. But if you're just visiting Portugal.
Mark
[ 00:26:44 ] Just general holidaying. He's creating itineraries. It's awesome. Let's have a free chat. Find out what you're looking for. And take it from there. But yeah, it's something I thoroughly enjoy.
MEREDITH
[ 00:26:59 ] Yeah. And we are always open for consultation calls about. Call them. Ask us anything calls. Yeah. Those things that like, yeah, I can find information maybe out there. But maybe this question is something that's more personal or something that you want to. Somebody who's done it, yeah, to answer the question for you. So that's out there as well. And we have partnerships available with discounts for our listeners. Just for you, yeah, for our. To get in touch with our immigration attorney, who helps with the entire visa process, and finding housing for people. Yes, and also our CPA tax advisor, who you definitely should talk with before you make any big decisions about moving abroad. And he is offering a discount, as well, right there on our stand store. So if any of that is helpful to you. There's also free resources out there that we've put up-that we felt, that we've used in the past, yeah. That we felt would be valuable to some of you guys too, yeah. So feel free to check it out there. If you are enjoying our podcast, please give us a review, give us a like, comment, love. We're on the platform that you are listening on. We want to reach as many people as we can, yeah. And share the value. Absolutely.
Mark
[ 00:28:15 ] Because also some of the value comes from the questions, yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:28:18 ] We need to do an FAQ soon, we will. Because we've gotten a lot of questions lately.
Mark
[ 00:28:23 ] So, yeah. Can you imagine why?
MEREDITH
[ 00:28:25 ] I can't imagine. Maybe, maybe someone is looming. January 20th. Anyway, we're not going there. No. We're here.
Mark
[ 00:28:36 ] We're today.
MEREDITH
[ 00:28:37 ] Thank you guys. Thank you very much. We are so appreciative of your listenership and your support. Absolutely. And the group we've created. The community that we've created is pretty cool. Absolutely.
Mark
[ 00:28:48 ] We look forward to coming back next week. Yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:28:50 ] Talk to you next week. All right. Take care. Bye. Cheers, y'all.
Mark
[ 00:28:54 ] Cheers, y'all.