MEREDITH
[ 00:00:08 ] Welcome back to Portugal Junkies Podcast. I'm Mark, and I'm Meredith, and we are fueled with coffee this morning.
MARK
[ 00:00:17 ] Yeah, you can possibly tell that. And you're certainly going to get to hear that.
MEREDITH
[ 00:00:22 ] So I'm not joking though, because we absolutely have our coffees ready. And I actually, if you're watching this on YouTube, I have my notes pulled up too, because we are serious. We are serious today about the content of this episode, because today we're going to talk about our D7 visa process. This is probably what I would assume to be one of the biggest questions that anybody who's even thinking about moving here has. Basically like, how do I get there? How do I legally get the status that I need in order to get there? And so, unless you were coming here for 90 days or less on a tourist visa, you are going to need some sort of visa. But today, we're only going to be talking about the D7. And we're only going to be talking about it as if you are an applicant from the United States. And that is only because that is our experience. And that is our experience so far, right? I don't want to be promising you that it's the same for Canada, or it's the same from the UK. We are going to speak about our experience on the D7 visa, because we just went through it.
MARK
[ 00:01:40 ] We're going to speak about what we know about. Yes. And that's personal to us.
MEREDITH
[ 00:01:43 ] Yes. Now, I will give another disclaimer. There is another visa that is very popular that just rolled out in the past year. When was that? I think it was toward the end of last year. Yeah. Toward the end of last year. And it is a digital nomad. That is the D8 visa. We may come back on and highlight that for you at some point. But we wanted to start here with the D7 because I think it's the most popular. I'll say that. Like, mainly because the D8 is new. But a lot of people jumped on that because you've got a lot of young people who are working and their companies say, 'Hey, go work anywhere.' That is a digital nomad D8 visa. A D7 visa. Is what people would call like a retirement visa or the past. Some people will call it passive income visa. So that's the lay of the land. That's the disclaimers that we want to put up front on the beginning of the episode just to make sure that we're not confusing anyone, confusing anybody. Yeah. Okay. For sure. D7 from the United States.
MARK
[ 00:02:48 ] For a U. S. citizen.
MEREDITH
[ 00:02:49 ] Yes. Perfect. Okay. So now the first thing we need to talk about, yep. That I feel like we did not we did not get this information. We like gathered it ourselves along the way. And that was who are the players? Yep. And how do they work together in order to like make this visa process happen?
MARK
[ 00:03:11 ] Where do they fit in the process?
MEREDITH
[ 00:03:12 ] Yeah. And how do you interact with them as an applicant? So the first one is called VFS Global. And how would you describe these people?
MARK
[ 00:03:22 ] They are.
MEREDITH
[ 00:03:23 ] I mean, not personally.
MARK
[ 00:03:26 ] Okay. I'll rewind that. No. What do they do? They. So depending on where you live in the States, you're going to have a VFS office that is looking after four, five, six different states. So for us living in North Carolina, our office. Washington, D .C. VFS are the paperwork gatherers. They are the sifters to make sure that everything is in order. They're not assessing you as to whether you are whether you have an application that is going to pass or not. They are just the form checkers that say, yes, you have given me 11 things. You've given me 11 things. Right. It's going to move on. And we. That's it.
MEREDITH
[ 00:04:09 ] And they gather it from you. They they get it together and then they send it off to the consulate and slash immigration, who then makes the decision. So the three players are VFS, the consulate, and you’re going to hear people and you might have already seen some of this if you’ve researched anything regarding moving to Portugal so far, which is SEF and AIMA. A-I-M-A. So those are the three players. And SEF and AIMA basically are each other, for lack of a better way of explaining it. SEF used to administer the process of deciding who is given a visa. But what has happened is that SEF as an organization has transferred over to AIMA. AIMA is now handling that process. So all of that happened, luckily, and I’m so sarcastic, during our visa process. And we’re going to talk about our timeline. In just a minute. But that transition happened during after basically after we had applied and so we actually applied under SEF and were approved under AIMA. And so you can imagine with bureaucracy how crazy it got. Left handed sometimes doesn't talk to the right hand. It got a little. It happens. A little crazy. So those are the three players. And I mean, I know that seems so elementary and like so like. 101 visa 101, but nobody ever really told us that, and how they were related to each other. There were times throughout the process where I felt like I was emailing AMA or Seth, but I was really emailing the consulate. Or I didn't understand that VFS wasn't a decision-making body, and so we just wanted to lay that out because I think it's important to understand like the purpose of each step and what each group is actually looking for from you, because if we had had the bigger picture, we might have made some different decisions. So I just wanted to to chat through that. Also, when you talk about the current challenges of what I referred to earlier, that transition from Seth to AMA yeah has really put some snags in the flow of the process um so if you again have done any research you've probably seen that you've got a lot of people who are kind of in flux who have applied because they've applied and um the organizations that were handling things. Changed and so processes changed in the middle and workflows changed, and maybe even availability of workforce all of that stuff could have, could be playing a factor right now, so um it will be playing yeah visas for a time where taking longer than they normally were taking, and so we'll get into that. But there's three things going on with this current situation, so that one is the Settama transition is still still ongoing and it is still um reeking somehow have it for people who have applied or something like that or future um availability of appointments that kind of thing. But we'll get into that. The second thing is you had an influx of applicants from the US, specifically, but applicants from everywhere who want to come to Portugal because I would say within the past five seven years it's really made its way onto the map as a great destination. 100% and the reasons for that are the reasons why we came-so affordability, safety, climate, and wine, wine... but it's not a secret anymore, right? And so it's it's gained in popularity, and people are interested. Which is why we're trying to be a resource for people who are wanting to come over here too; so you've got the changeover, you've got an influx of applicants, and then also, in The fall of last year, the President of Portugal stepped down amid a controversy and so everything that was immigration-related under his government and the current laws and rules were kind of in flux as well. So, there was a time period there where it's like, 'Well, this is going to be extended for 30 days, and everything's going to stay the same.'
MARK
[ 00:09:22 ] Then, more stuff that came out; it really depended who you listened to and at what point in the day you listened to it because it would change.
MEREDITH
[ 00:09:28 ] Yeah, because if another a different kind of uh party leader was elected, we didn't know what those rules would be or what would change. So, I'd say those three things are what I would call the hurdles right now for people. And I would say we were we experienced some of that, we experienced some of those challenges. But we've also been very, we were very lucky in a lot of ways, and we'll talk about it because we're going to talk about our timeline so that you get a better idea of like how it worked for us, um, how it can apply to you, and how yeah, you can apply it to what you're trying to accomplish and win. So, um, yeah, is there anything that you would add on the whole current status of the organization situation just within a lot of the Facebook forums, there's a lot of
MARK
[ 00:10:26 ] People that are having challenges in getting appointments, um, even just in the VFS ( yeah they're having there's no appointment availability. You can't go to another VFS office if you live in one particular state; you've got to go to that yes that approved place, um. So there's no getting around it; you just have to check it every every hour of every day, yeah.
MEREDITH
[ 00:10:51 ] And I think, you know, for us and we're going to talk about it because Mark's getting ready to start us like taking through our timeline, taking us through our timeline. But you know for us, we decided we wanted to um make an appointment in June and we purposefully chose September. Appointment because we wanted to move in October or November, or whatever, and at the time, at the time, everybody was like 30 days, people were getting their visas within 30 days, and so we were I mean, if we want to be there in the fall then let's back up right and so that wasn't an issue for us then, but it is, it could be an issue now if you are sitting here thinking about doing this process so high level, you know, that's that's one of the um, I guess impacts of all those things that we just talked about in that whole current situation, yeah, um, so just to talk about our timeline to easily lay out the timeline, so we've mentioned a couple of dates.
MARK
[ 00:11:50 ] but you know in order the goal was to be there in october november um as we said the the approvals were taking about 30 days so we made our vfs appointment for 25th of september it came out and we thought perfect that's great so before we go forward what what happens at the vfs appointment like high level because we didn't talk we talked about who vfs is yeah but like high level what is it what do you do when you go to the vfs appointment when you get there you whatever time your appointment is you've got to be there like 15 or 30 minutes before but they only let you in in staggered because they don't want the whole building overrun with lots of different people um one thing i would say as a pro tip if you like is if you're when you're applying as a family or as two people like you and i were you're both applying on your own but together and often it's a case that you're only allowed to have one person go up and talk all the documents through for both people with that one true um because i was that person representative of vfs so put your best player take your mvp and throw them in basically the person who knows your paperwork best is the person who needs to be the person that wants to go up there and see it but in all it's very if you've got everything in the right Order in the right place and you know your stuff, any questions that they may ask it's a pretty easy process, maybe 30-45 minutes at the most depending on how many applicants um, but yeah it's it's pretty yeah I mean basically you present yourself in person, they call it an interview but it's not really an interview, I mean again I wish we had known this because we didn't know yeah it's just a checklist like a tick box, I mean I felt like we were going into a green card interview, that was scary that gives me that was scary for no reason but again you don't know what your job is, you don't know so the anxiousness can take over but
MEREDITH
[ 00:13:54 ] I mean, basically when you go to VFS, you are presenting yourself in person because they require that, yeah, you can't do walk-ins and you can't do mailing, yeah, anymore. And you're there to give them the application and all the supporting documentation, and maybe even take some passport photos if you don't already have them. They have some biometric stuff there if needed, like if you know if you're going to, you know, need backup for the things that you couldn't provide or if the photo is a little bit off, yeah. Like they made me retake my photo, blah, blah... we're going to talk about all of those details but I want to just Take us back to your whole point of the VFS global appointment that starts this process is to present yourself in person and give them all the documentation that's required in order to apply for the visa, and then VFS packages it together and then they send it off.
MARK
[ 00:14:51 ] And then you you you start learning Portuguese patients PP PP if you ever see or hear us refer to PP um it's Portuguese patients um do an entire episode really can't underestimate the value that that will give you um well if you ever learn it if you yeah I don't even know if some Portuguese people can learn it but here's the thing anyway things move slower and you can.
MEREDITH
[ 00:15:22 ] Either look at that as this is what I'm moving toward and leaving the hustle bustle craze in the U. I sum or you have to struggle and I think I'm in kind of in the middle of that right now, because I've learned a little bit but my inclinations are always like go, go, go. And patience, you'll hear us say that a lot, but anyway. Okay, let's take us back in time. We were going to try to be there in October-November, so we made the appointment. So, we made our appointment online in June and then from June till September, we collected all the paperwork. Now, I mean, that's a big huge caveat right? Like, collected all the paperwork took quite a long time.
MARK
[ 00:16:14 ] And we're going to do it takes longer than you think it does.
MEREDITH
[ 00:16:18 ] We're going to do some um very detailed um future episodes about each element so that we give some pro tips on those things when you should collect what you should do first, that kind of thing, what order, etc.
MARK
[ 00:16:34 ] But so, yeah, so we got to the point where we had the interview, um, came out of there feeling absolutely elated and then wait, um, and then we waited, yeah, and again waited some more. We haven't had anything by October, so you know. We were getting a little bit we really kept going because it was a case of well, everybody else is getting it in 30 days.
MEREDITH
[ 00:16:58 ] And we're not, what's going on, and blah blah blah, so yeah, because ours was September 25th, and we were like, well, if we haven't heard by Halloween, we're going to make a trip.
MARK
[ 00:17:07 ] I know we'll hear about Halloween, yeah, I know we will, but we didn't, so we decided to take a trip over move some suitcases and get into our apartment. We should again, part of the process, we'll come to it in a later episode, but you already have to have your apart, you probably know this if you don't, you're gonna know... Move some stuff across, and just enjoy it for a week or so because it's really to get some suitcases over here. Yeah, we did bring more than we thought.
MEREDITH
[ 00:17:35 ] we were going to i think we're that's a whole nother i think we're a lot naive about what we could travel with how did i bring three coats i don't know okay anyway so i have no idea we go over in november just to take some things and settle in and we're going to be back in november and see the apartment that we had rented because we did do all that remotely yeah um again more to come on that and then we returned back home yeah waited some more still no news here comes thanksgiving still no news yeah we just decided that we were gonna since we already have the apartment we've we can stay there for 90 days let's just let's just yeah let's Go, so um basically trips are we're elective right, we know not everybody is going to be able to do that or want to do it, but those were things we I had already quit my job and Mark had wrapped up his real estate transaction that says like what are we going to sit here for if we can go be in a place that we are paying for, so that was our logic there. And quite frankly, we had no idea when the visa was going to turn up at that point, you know, because changes had happened from Sefton Amine; we were hearing rumblings about it delays and so we just wanted to do it, enjoy ourselves, so that's what we did. So we did move over here on December 1st without visas.
MARK
[ 00:19:04 ] But if you do that, basically you have to know that you are going to have to go back to the United States, yeah once you get your visa approval, yeah you get your email approving and you've got to send your passports in now um you can't send it from Portugal right a number of different reasons, number one you can't be in a country without a passport if it's not your um place of residence and number two you've got to show an entry stamp in your passport coming back in, coming back in to start once you have your two-year temporary residence so basically when we got our um approval December 18th we were sitting in our apartment in Bordeaux.
MEREDITH
[ 00:19:46 ] And um, we celebrated. Yay! Great, and then we enjoyed Christmas. Here, we came home in January.
SPEAKER_2
[ 00:19:55 ] Christmas tree we did.
MEREDITH
[ 00:19:57 ] We bought a little Christmas tree and we, um, came back in January to the States. We mailed our passports in the mail because that's what they require you to do. It's the most nerve-wracking part of the process: to put your two passports in a FedEx overnight envelope and then pray that it gets there, but that's what you do-that's the requirement. You cannot walk in; you cannot do any of that. Don't even try it unless they change something under AMA, but when it existed, the process existed that way for us, so we overnighted. The passports they received them, they put the visa in our passports and mailed them by FedEx back to us, yeah, and that is how you actually get your visas. Um, so that's all part one wouldn't you say like that's step one of the visa process because what you're getting in your passport is a temporary visa, mm-hmm, yeah.
MARK
[ 00:21:00 ] I mean, the one thing I would also add to that is when you get a visa, just make sure if there's a little URL stamped physically on the visa slip, um, check that because that, if you're one of the lucky ones, it's like what do you want to get him the the golden the golden ticket, um, because it means that the U. So will likely not show up in your passport means that they've already set you up for your first, uh, interview.
MEREDITH
[ 00:21:28 ] Now that's part two. That's part two.
MARK
[ 00:21:30 ] But it's just because we were talking about a passport. I just want to say, look for this because if it's in there or if there's any mention of it, you're a lucky winner. Um, so we were lucky. We were very lucky. And I think that, that kind of made up for some of the crappy stuff that didn't go our way.
MEREDITH
[ 00:21:47 ] It's just like anything that you go through where you're in flux, like our, the waiting process was the hardest part and being patient was the hardest part because your whole life is in flux. What do you do? You're worried that you're not going to get approved or you're worried that, you know, it's too late and it's, you're paying for an apartment for longer than you thought before you're in it. There's all these things that are like making you, it can make you very anxious. And I remember people would just say, 'You just have to wait.' You just have to be patient. You just have to be patient. And I can see it now. Like I get it now looking back; it's easy to say that to people, but when you're in it, it can be very, um, feels very tumultuous, you know? But so all that we outlined until we got our visas in our passport was part one of the visa process. Once you get here and you have 120 days, I believe, to get here, right? Once your visa is effective, you can, you have 120 days to enter the country. And, um, although I don't know many people who wait that long, I think most people are like chomping at the bit to get here. The second piece is your second interview, which is kind of perfunctory. I know that's a really, it's a posh word. That's a posh word.
MARK
[ 00:23:10 ] It's like an obligatory.
MEREDITH
[ 00:23:13 ] Is that another one? It's like, yeah, format. Formality. It's a second interview in person with now AIMA. And at this interview, they want you to update a little bit of the paperwork. They might ask you for additional like bank statements that are more recent or something like that, right? Biometrics, things like that to issue your actual temporary residency card. And so we're going to talk about all that on a future episode. It's important that you know that that whole process that we went through is step one. And then once you get here, there is a step two in order to actually get your temporary residency card, which is valid for two years. And that's where we are. We've gotten all that done. We'll take you through all of that, how we actually did it and what's required and all those things. Um, but that's how we sit here today in Porto, both with our cards in hand, which means we're kind of able to. We're able to breathe a minute for the next couple of years because that card is valid for two years.
MARK
[ 00:24:26 ] Yeah, exactly.
MEREDITH
[ 00:24:28 ] And at which time we would choose to renew for three.
MARK
[ 00:24:32 ] Yep.
MEREDITH
[ 00:24:32 ] And then at five years, you can apply citizenship. You can apply for citizenship. Well, that's under the current regime. Yes. Again, all subject to, if anything changes, but that's how it exists today. Yeah.
MARK
[ 00:24:43 ] I mean, if I had to put a word to the process of, of getting a card. I mean, it's, it's, it's getting to this point where we sit today. Um, I, I would just use the word emotional. It is just, just that. And you have got to learn to take some punches and you've got to learn to make sure you enjoy the wins because it's a balance and you know, you, you can't have one without the other. I don't know of anybody and I've not seen anybody right that they had a absolutely simple proof. Perfect. I mean, it's, it's a process. This does not happen. You're dealing with bureaucracy in a different country, in a different language, all sorts of mix-ups can happen. I do.
MEREDITH
[ 00:25:27 ] And that, but I do believe that what we can share can help people avoid some of those things. Um, just because we have perspective now and it's not just about here's what you need is X, Y, Z on the checklist. Like there's more, it's more to it than that because, and again, we're going to talk about it, but I felt like some of the big picture we were missing in order to choose the right documents to prove what they really are looking for. And that's what we're going to talk about in the next episode. The most important things that they're going to ask for that, that immigration is looking for and why they're looking for those things. Because I didn't understand why.
MARK
[ 00:26:08 ] I think it really, really helps determining, Oh, it's not just for an unknown reason. There is a reason. A reason.
MEREDITH
[ 00:26:17 ] A reason why they're asking you for this, this, and this, and why someone might be denied because they didn't provide something that was clearer here. So I, this is again, what this channel and what our community that we want to build is all about. We want to make sure that we are using our experience, giving bigger perspective, uh, tips and tricks and all of that kind of stuff. That's going to help the process be easier for you when you decide. That this is what you want to embark on. Um, in addition to things like Portugal travel and where to live and all kinds of other things that we're going to be including, but this seemed to be the biggest and most popular topic that people wanted more information about. So, uh, we are going to continue this series, the next episode, it's going to dive deeper into some of the requirements of the D seven visa. And, um, we're going to get into specifics with you guys about what you need and why that's the other thing. Why D, why are they asking you for these things? So, um, high-level before we move forward, if you are already ready to start your immigration and visa process, the first tip I would tell you is go on the VFS global site. Go to the website, determine what your office is based on where you live and check the appointment schedules. So get an idea of when the next available appointment actually is because it's going to depend on your timeline and it's also going to depend on what the turnaround is right now. They have 90 days to respond to your application. It took them the full 90 days for us. Yeah. People are getting there.
MARK
[ 00:28:18 ] We were under the impression it was going to be like the 30, but turned out 90.
MEREDITH
[ 00:28:21 ] So it's all about trends. It's all about workflows and that kind of thing. But, um, you know, right now some people are getting them in 30 to 45 days. I can't guarantee that when you watch this, it's going to be the same, but it's exactly right. So, um, I would say check the site. You are not going to set up an appointment with VFS more than 90 days prior to work. Yeah. So it's going to depend on when you actually want to go. That's kind of a rule, a rule that I would suggest. I would say it's not a rule from, from anybody like in the organizations, but it's a good starting point to kind of figure out your timeline because if they take 90 days and you want to be there within that 90 days or 120 days, that's going to put you about where you need to be. So that's number one. It doesn't guarantee you that you're going to get your visa. Yeah. But in that timeframe, but all that we're telling you today is about like setting yourself up for the best case scenario. Right. Um, and so that's where I would start and at least kind of do your research on how often these appointments are available right now in this current climate that we outlined earlier. Um, that's it. So basically it's like, how do you give yourself the best case opportunity to get it done? If you're going to do it, you're going to have the best case scenario, but it's going the way you're handling as fast as possible and patient will allow you.
MARK
[ 00:29:51 ] Yeah. I mean, it's again, it's, it's an emotional journey, um, but it's also one that you're not going to avoid. It's just what it is.
MEREDITH
[ 00:30:01 ] Um, it's not for the faint of heart and it's also, I believe some of this.
MARK
[ 00:30:06 ] Truth to this, the system is set so that if you're a hundred percent committed, then you'll push forward. You'll get over the hurdles and you'll make it if you're not, then you know, if you start seeing these roadblocks, then this-oh my god, I'm sorry to say it this way, this is, let's just select the very first part of a potential roadblock because once you live here, there are several other roadblocks, even getting Wi-Fi installed and things like that, it's just get me started, mind blown, um, so all of these things yeah take in stride, breathe, and know that if you push forward, it will it will figure itself out and you will get your visa, it's just you might hit some hurdles along the way, they might come back to you and tell you they need more information, they might come back to you with approval, they might come back to you with a denial, that doesn't mean that you don't get your visa, you have other resources to figure it out, so again, our goal for the next uh podcast, maybe even two episodes of this podcast is to help you get your visa and get your visa and get your visa and get are going.
MEREDITH
[ 00:31:09 ] To be about these details that will help you set yourself up, um, to presenting yourself for the visa approval in the best way possible, and that's our our goal for the next couple of episodes. But if you do have questions that are specific right to your situation, um, and your timeline that didn't get clear here today or that you want more clarity on for your specific situation, we are here to help you get your visa and get your visa and get your visa and get your visa. We are available for one-on-one consultations, um, head to our Instagram at Portugal Junkies and go to the bio there's a calendar right there, we are happy to help you. In any way, we can DM us um or send us a DM, so we're happy to do that.
MARK
[ 00:31:54 ] And I think that's it for today, yeah, and if you see you next time absolutely one thing I will say is that if you're watching this and you think I wasn't paying attention because I was always looking down, it's because I was looking at the show notes um, so you know I'm engaged.
MEREDITH
[ 00:32:12 ] Oh my husband, oh there we are! He doesn't like for me to call him a Brit, you like to be called an Englishman, yeah, but it's important to you, yeah, it is. Why? Because that's who I am, you're not a Brit as well, but I'm an Englishman, yes, all right, yes, all right! Guys, thank you so much, we appreciate you. Listening, please pass it on. Please review us on our podcast wherever you listen. Even if you're on YouTube, here give us a like, follow, and comment! Yeah, I want to build it; I want to build a community. Listen up, future expats, for more content about our move, the visa process, Portuguese culture, and destinations, and tons of support resources for your own decisions and potential move abroad. Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Portugal Junkies.
MARK
[ 00:33:07 ] Stay in touch and help us reach more people by subscribing here and following us there.
MEREDITH
[ 00:33:13 ] Cheers, y'all!