Mark Burns
[ 00:00:04 ] Bom dia. Bom dia. Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode. This is one where we weren't necessarily expecting to do it anytime soon. But, you know, at the very beginning, I think on the very first initial podcast, we said that we were going to be completely open, honest, truthful, give you, you know, all the highs and lows. And today is going to be one of those lows. So this is kind of a talking out therapy session in a way, but it brings with it the realizations of moving away from friends and family. And, you know, when we say family, we mean all of family. It's not just humans. It's our fur babies. It's our cats. It's our whatever that, you know, you've had to leave behind. So that's really what we're going to chat about this morning.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:00:58 ] Well, and I think it's really important. So I was actually on our TikTok account the other day. Follow us there if you have not. And someone said, just make sure you talk about all of it, the good and the bad, right? And that's always been our goal. We don't want to sugarcoat things. And it's funny that you call this talk therapy because it probably is part of our little therapy session.
Mark Burns
[ 00:01:30 ] Yeah, no charge.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:01:32 ] But I think, I think it's really important that when we have tough times that we talk about those things too, so that people who are following us, people who are interested in this experience overall for yourself, that it's not through rose-colored glasses either. Yeah.
Mark Burns
[ 00:01:54 ] I mean, when we moved, we knew that we were going to have to take on some tough things. Well, not even decisions, just things that happened way out of our control. And to some degree, you know, it was, it wouldn't have changed anything even if we were still living back in Charlotte, North Carolina, you know, but the difference is, you know, X thousands of miles away. Um, it kind of feels like a big difference. So should we get into it as they say? So, yeah.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:02:26 ] Um, this week was just a hard one. It was a hard week for me. I'll, I'll be honest. I, I had a friend who passed away late last week, um, at 48 of cancer. And although we knew that that was coming, it was a very stark reality, um, to hear from across an ocean. You know, I feel like one of the things that I want to talk about a little bit today is like all the things that I want to talk about. All the feelings that we're feeling when things like this happen and being so far away and like the ramifications of those things. Um, but anyway, I, I lost a friend and then within a couple of days, my parents, um, dog who has been part of our family for 13 years also passed away. And it felt like a lot of loss this week.
Mark Burns
[ 00:03:25 ] Yeah. Yeah.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:03:26 ] And I, I could say lost from afar, but it didn't feel like it was very far away. It felt like it hit very, very, very hard. Um, so it was just a tough week. And I, this is why we're doing this podcast today. Not planned, um, we're, I mean, we're very unscripted. I mean, we usually don't script anything, but we at least plan things and like, what, what, what am I talking about?
Mark Burns
[ 00:03:56 ] What are we going to talk about? Yeah. But today it's kind of off the cuff because it deserves to be, you know, you can't really, I don't think you can script a story of love and loss.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:04:11 ] No. And I, I don't, you know, I, the important thing to me is to make sure that we're talking about real life stuff and I don't think it gets more real life than death. And when you're away, how that feels.
Mark Burns
[ 00:04:28 ] I mean, this is something that we spoke about at the very beginning, you know, with ourselves as to a couple of things. Number one, why are we doing this experience? Why are we having this experience? It's because of reasons like, Because you don't know you have tomorrow. Like you don't know when, when it's going to be. Yeah. So if you live in the moment, then you can at least be grateful for those moments. And I think that's really important. Yeah. Different for us, different for everybody, but important for us. Um, but it's, I don't know from the outset, it was always going to be, there is going to be a loss over an ocean. And, you know, for take it back a couple of years ago to when my dad passed, he was in England and I was in the States and even, you know, the very outside said it wouldn't have made much of a difference if we were in North Carolina at the time for Lou and bella but you know losing dad at that time even if i was living in england i still wouldn't make it in time so you can still i don't know i think just being grateful for family's support of why you're doing what you're doing that matters an awful lot as well yes you know um so when you're sorry i was talking over you a little bit when your dad died let's because this is this helps us as a couple 100 because now that we have moved from the u .
Meredith Burns
[ 00:06:04 ] s to portugal i can understand what mark went through moving from the uk to the u . Before we met, even more now because I've experienced this move for us, even though we're doing it together, so I know that we're going to have a lot of um times where we're going to get each other even more than we already do, which is hard to believe. But I also like when you think about when you lost your dad and you were away and you were across an ocean, you were in Charlotte; what were those emotions that you felt? What were they? Can you name them? And I know you have a problem with this; I probably shouldn't even ask you this question, but we're going to test you today, baby. Name the emotions...
Mark Burns
[ 00:07:00 ] um, I don't know if these are in no particular order, but you know, kind of. So obviously sadness, great sadness, yes, but also guilt, yes, to a degree. And I know that even before I moved, you know, I had a year and a half, two years to plan to get the visa to co from UK to the States and throughout those two years dad was declining but at the beginning he was well aware of what I was doing and he was like you go for it son you just crack on and go and live you know don't worry about your mum and I will be fine and it's true they were and mum continues to be but I think the sadness and guilt but as I said you know part way that's not I can feel the guilt in this in the States or I could have felt the guilt in the UK because I still wouldn't have had time given what happened to get to get there in time so you know I can feel guilt about being an ocean away and I probably will always but at the Same time, I think you've just got to go with the whole attitude of what brought you from what took you from one place to another and that's adventure; it's experiences; it's living in the moment, yeah.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:08:27 ] Well, you made me tear up when you said 'guilt' because I think that's probably what I have been feeling the most um, yeah. Okay, I told myself it wasn't gonna cry, but if anybody knows me, you know better than that, like that would be; I didn't bring it, it would be weird if I didn't cry, but I will say this: I felt shocked and sadness and then immediate guilt, and that is self-imposed, but it's it's normal; it is self-imposed, though. We are lucky that We have family that supports what we're doing and supports our decisions, and though they might want us at home during these times that of loss, they are not the ones imposing the guilt, at least for us. And I know that's not the same for everybody's situation, but yeah, I felt immense guilt for not being able to go to the funeral right, not being able to hug my parents when their best buddy died. You know it's it's a really really hard thing. And I know technology is amazing and it does help us so much. I'm so thankful for it. I talked to my friends a lot; I talked to them on video, I talked to them through the technology, and I talked to my family. That way, and we see each other on camera, it's amazing. And I don't know if 20 years ago I would have been as willing to do something like this if it weren't for all of those like technology options. But it doesn't seem like enough. It felt like, to me, like even when I was able to talk to my parents about their loss of Bella, our family dog, like it didn't feel very lonely ironically right then and I'm sitting here with the best man in the world and I still felt disconnected from them and honestly guilty for not being able to support them the way that I'm supposed to. And I think that just comes from me, that's again my it's what it's what I want. I I have the best parents in the world, and I always want to be a good daughter to them.
Mark Burns
[ 00:11:03 ] You're free; you're just because we're an ocean over doesn't make you any less by any stretch-it's just different. I think honestly if anything it makes you, you say disconnected. I think it makes you more connected, not necessarily when things like this happen, but I think just because you are one is an ocean away, you know, you have to make it; you've got to make an effort. And if you make an effort, then you find out things that you might not have found out if we were in Charlotte or... I have a weekly Zoom meeting every Sunday seven o'clock p.m. Where most some days this I'll quote that sometimes um I fail, but you know with my mom, my aunt Eugene okay all of our family like extended family has cousins, thank you. And I have a brother, but family trees beyond that a and get a little confusing for me big words oh yeah but you know there's a lot that's happening but I am know if you make those efforts they are still a way of keeping connected even if you feel in that moment disconnected yeah because you know that you've got something to look forward to, that you're gonna have this conversation, you're gonna find out that one of your cousins went for an audition at Britain's Got Talent. And it's just like, where the heck did that come from from the person that you might least have all expected it, you know, so I think that's when being a part can help bring you closer because you're asking more questions than in that short period of time than expecting to happen over a month or a few months of just catching up every now and then.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:12:56 ] Yeah, when you're when you're able to see each other in person regularly, it's a natural thing that you kind of know what's going on right, and and when you are away like we are, I guess one of the learnings is that it does take more effort; it's just like working on any friendship or relationship. that you want to keep you have to make different efforts when you have moved abroad to feel connected to family and friends and you will do that if you care enough those are just things that you know that is just life but yeah it's just it's been it's just life but yeah it's just it's been I don't know I feel like I it has been a roller coaster this week and I'll be honest my motivation my I have felt super tired for the past couple days like I know that it is literally just the weight of all of this emotionally on me and um it's hard that's that's what it comes down to is that this is the hard part and I would venture to say this is the hardest part of doing an adventure like this, adventuring like this, all of those things come at a price, and I also believe that you decide if the price is worth it right like. And I will go on record to say I do think it is still worth it; it feels harder to say that in times of loss, of course, because you're in it and you're you're just missing your comforts of your family and friends and all of those things. But you know when it comes down to it the irony is that when we have loss, for instance my friend at 48, that is you; it is really shocking to me, it is really shocking to me, and it also sobers me, it makes me ironically rooted in exactly why we're doing what we're doing right now I'm 45 he is 53 we have chosen this life for now at least because we don't want to assume that we have tomorrow or we assume that we have 10 more years to travel or we assume that when we are retired that we can do all the things that we want to do. So that's the irony of it is that you feel the shock, you feel the loss, you feel the guilt, you feel the loneliness, you feel disconnected and then after some time you are reminded that that's exactly why we have done what we're doing. And we're just lucky that we have family and friends who support this, right? Despite not being there, despite missing out on our funeral, despite not being able to hug my mom and dad, you know, when they lost their fur baby. Like that stuff doesn't matter to them. They love us and support us anyway, so I think from our perspective, trying to like therapeutize all this.
Mark Burns
[ 00:16:34 ] Therapize? Does that even a word?
Meredith Burns
[ 00:16:36 ] I think it says. We're gonna look it up. It feels like it's your own shit you have to work through and I didn't even really notice that until right now when I said it. I mean honestly, this is why I was hoping that this off-the-cuff podcast would help us both with this situation because this is last time and that's the other thing I felt fear; I felt fear because I thought, 'oh, this is just the first time we're going to go through this, yeah and you're best scary; yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right.
Mark Burns
[ 00:17:12 ] I mean, I don't know; I mean, I've always felt a worry for mom, you know, having lost dad being married for gazillion years but she's strong even though she's you know has her own struggles in battles with her health and that is a big fear that I think it's another reason why I stay connected as often as I can and I keep telling myself every now and then, you know; I have to make more of an effort, I have to be the one to give her a call every now and then or every week or every Sunday, you know I mean, we speak a lot throughout the week and you know she'll phone us at 10 o'clock at night. Nothing. Oh, crap! What's the problem? You know nobody phones anybody at 10 o'clock unless it's bad news, apart from her because she doesn't go to bed until like 11. 30 she's like oh I was just having a cup of tea for god sake mother scared the life out of me you know but you get to know the those routines and they become less of a fear of what's going to happen and I think that's the biggest fear I've ever had of what's going to happen when I answer this call but the idea again of being away when something happens is a very real and scary one but keep coming back to you can feel loss and sadness and everything in that moment when somebody passes but it doesn't it shouldn't if that's what if this is what you want it shouldn't make you change how you live in those moments also when you think about it like I think our gut our reactions go toward like well I could have been there I could have hugged my mom and dad but if we were living in Charlotte we've gotten in the car and immediately gone to the lake I think honestly I mean of course you want to sit there and go well yes of course we would. I mean of course you want to sit there and go well yes of course we would.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:19:21 ] Honestly, you just don't know, you don't, and yes, would I have? Would I likely see them in a quicker amount of time after they've had such a loss?
Mark Burns
[ 00:19:33 ] Yes, of course, that goes without saying.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:19:35 ] But I think it's interesting that we kind of romanticize, like if I was there, it's just like it's just like you and what you, that's that's guilt, that's guilt talking, and that's guilt, self-imposed in our situation, and I because it you know again for for dad when when I was talking to mom directly afterwards she said, 'You wouldn't have mattered whether you were here or there.
Mark Burns
[ 00:20:00 ] What happened, happened? You could not have affected it.' I couldn't get there and I was 20 minutes Away, you know, so it doesn't matter where you would've lived in the UK, you wouldn't have gotten there, you know. And I think you know particularly for mom and your parents, they make it easier even in a difficult way; oh, they give us so much with ourselves like in our heads, but they give us so much grace, yeah, they do. And I'm thankful, yeah, because you know to get a response of 'well, yeah', I mean, you could have been here and you know maybe, maybe you'd have seen him nothing of the sort, and very fortunate and lucky to to have parents, yes, both of our parents are exactly the same when it comes to that, yes.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:20:47 ] Well, all of this to say, I, I, I think stuff. Like, this is inevitable when you make a choice to move across an ocean or to move to a different country um to move abroad whether you move to Portugal or somewhere else yeah right it is it is the known sacrifice that you make as part of the adventure I mean that's what it comes down to and you can know it on paper but this is our first time really making a choice to move across an ocean or to move across an ocean or to move across an ocean or to move across an ocean um since we've been gone and I think it was worth kind of hashing out on here because I think it's important that people experience things along with us in a way you know I I feel like I don't know, I just feel like it's really important that if you're if we are influencing anybody in any way that we're influencing anybody in any way that we're influencing anybody in any way to make a decision right and we're not here to say 'Hey, move to Portugal' but if you connect with us on those things, that's lovely. Um, but I will say that our efforts are to help people who decide they want this and I think it's important that we are representing this experience authentically, yeah, very authentically, and which is what we said it also, yeah. And it also makes me think about that idea that I keep having about like expat Support somehow, yeah, you know, like I know not every person who moves across an ocean is going to have the same emotions and reactions and things that they have to work through. But I am totally intrigued with that process, and because I'm working through it myself, so I'm noticing like the things that I'm going through and I... I just find that fascinating, and I think it would be great to have some sort of community, a community that is just focused on that aspect of it. Yeah, you know, like once you're here, we'll be what now? Once you've what are you gonna do now? Like, and how am I navigating there's plenty of people who move over here alone. Well, I move to the States and, and so it's like, I know these people are going through some similar things, and maybe they don't have a support partner, you know what I mean, like there's or family or whatever.
Mark Burns
[ 00:23:16 ] I just, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know, yeah, I feel like there's a need for this, and it may exist, I don't know, but, but you know, you see it in some of the and anybody that's watching this or listening to this, and they're considering a move to Portugal or any other country for that matter, but specifically Portugal because we can talk about that in a specific several of the expat pages like Facebook pages will have. an occasional um comment by somebody saying i've been here for three months um can somebody tell me where i might go and find some friends or how to connect with people i'm dutch or i'm english or i'm american or i'm whatever you know but i'm open to anybody and anything and because that's that's the reality of moving to a country you can't if you're going to move let's get a little bit off topic but on topic of what you're talking about but if you're going to move to try and stay in completely a boxed environment of what you've left what was the point of leaving yeah you can't come here and change things you're not going to come Here, go well, I want um coffee. Make creamer hazelnut flavor that was a dig, that was a dig. Um, or you know anything like that because you're not going to find... well, we haven't and if you do, please drop a link.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:24:32 ] It's true though; you don't go there, you don't go to a new place to change it. You have to hope that it changes you, right?
Mark Burns
[ 00:24:40 ] That's the whole point of growing personally, emotionally, you know all of those ending in wise uh big words again... um, so yeah, I just think the community is, is a huge thing, yeah, and it can often help with things like this as well because it puts you in this, you know perhaps in a, in a bar or in a cafe. talking to somebody and catching up yeah i had a similar thing happen to me three months ago or just go through exactly the same thing you just don't know what is going on in people's lives unless you're not going to be able to do it you connect and talk and drop a comment and it might resonate it might not but i think that the more you say and i've learned this this week in fact the more you say yes or sorry i say yes now more than i say no because if i say yes and experience something i don't like it then all i've done is i've spent a bit of time doing something that ultimately i'm not going to do again but if i say yes and i like it wow then There's a little bit of growth, yeah, so you know. Saying yes more than no is a huge one from a community aspect and it sort of touches on what we're talking about here, yeah, I think.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:26:00 ] I don't know, I think we need to explore that and I think that if you're listening and you are considering moving or if you've already moved and you are like jumping up out of your seat going 'yes, girl, I've felt that too', then let's let's start to build a community together, connect with each other, and I think that's a big thing. I think that's a big thing. Us... um, it's something I want to explore because I think there's opportunity. to talk and and form support for people who are moving and haven't moved yet yeah so that they can prepare emotionally for things and then also after you know the fact but anyway i such a therapy session today and i i really appreciate thank you for spending your time with us yeah we'll see if these we'll see if these podcasts are the ones that are are interesting to people but i i appreciate the medium to be able to use this almost selfishly today because i needed this i needed to talk it out i needed to talk it out in a in a way that's not just talking to my husband it's talking about the whole situation and kind of like peeling The layers back about what's really going on in my head and my heart, and in situations like this, again it's not going to be the only time; it's not. And um, it's hard to realize that it's scary to realize that, but it is also life. It is also a situation where it leads those kinds of that acknowledgement and knowing that has led us here. Yeah, so I'm also thankful for it.
Mark Burns
[ 00:27:44 ] Yeah, I again i just think that you know we have a prime, prime opportunity to share experiences-good, bad, ugly, truth all of those things. Um, and that's that's intentionally what we're going to be doing because we never back away from that because that's life, that's Real life, um, you know, yes, we could do podcasts on go to there, visit here, experience this food, and we might not say we're not because we will, because that's another reason we moved here is to go and experience these things. But I think sometimes you've got to take it, take take the the swing when it comes to acknowledging something that you knew was going to happen, but now it's happened. How do you deal with it? Yeah, and it's not a one-and-done thing; this is, you know, it's a forever thing, um, dealing with how you help one another how we help one another, how we help each other through those difficult times, and that's what we do, and we're Very fortunate and lucky to to have that as a unit, so well thank you guys, thank you my Portugal junkies for tuning in.
Meredith Burns
[ 00:28:55 ] Yes, and um, you know connect us with people that have been talking about Portugal. We'd love for them to hear our podcast; we'd love for you for us to connect with you and them on Instagram. If you guys want to share with us things that are like your burning questions, that's exactly what I'm just going to say: um, podcasts probably at least one a month so continue asking those questions; nothing's off the table, we'll answer anything, yeah, exactly because you know ultimately we can sit here and we can talk about the things.
Mark Burns
[ 00:29:30 ] That interests us, or we think that are going to interest others because they interest us, and we've rightly assumed so, yeah. Um, so if you've got burning questions or why don't they ever talk about, yeah, bring it on!
Meredith Burns
[ 00:29:44 ] Okay.
Mark Burns
[ 00:29:45 ] We may not have a personal experience about it, why don't we talk about schools? Why don't they talk about education? Fine. Ask us; we'll do some digging, do some research, find out. We don't have children here, um, for a baby, uh, you may hear snoring in the background who knows. Um, so yeah, again just it's an open invite to to be a part of it, yeah, um, and you know, to that end we are going to do some interviews with different People, oh yeah!
Meredith Burns
[ 00:30:15 ] In fact, I think I might interview my sisters in light of this conversation. Oh okay that will be an evening one with wine, so tune in for sure, all right guys, thank you so much, we'll see you in the next episode and uh yeah!